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Yes, my thought was the same. Currently if an airline drops you, demanding compensation is a cumbersome process but you can get it. So, e.g., if a flight was b

Yes, my thought was the same. Currently if an airline drops you, demanding compensation is a cumbersome process but you can get it. So, e.g., if a flight was booked by too few passengers, the airline has an incentive to still honor the booking. With this system they might as well say "today numbers don't add up so we just don't fly", and cancel with any excuse.

Arnt 4y ago
That's not actually different from today. In both cases the airline has a contract with each of its passengers. The contract allows cancellation on terms specified in the contract, and requires payment on the due date, also specified. The airline has a duty to fulfil the contract once it has entered into the contract. That duty applies both before and after the payment due date (or payment dates, in many contract).
- eru 4y ago
  Exactly. And airlines and passengers should be allowed to pick the contract that most suites them. Instead of the government picking the 'one best' contract. One size fits none.
  - Arnt 4y ago
    Germany already has a number of restrictions on contracts with regular people (corporations and certain persons are expected to look out for themselves). For example, phone sales can't be final at that time, there has to be a 14-day grace period starting from when the purchase agreement is accessible to both parties (IIRC). Mail-order vendors have to accept returns on most kinds of goods, by law not by convention. Warranties cannot be shorter than a specified limit. Apartment rental contracts cannot ban having children, and so on and so forth. The restrictions are real, even if most of a typical contract is still free to design and write by the parties. This suggested change isn't larger than many of those, or groundbreaking. It's just another one like those.
    - eru 4y ago
      > This suggested change isn't larger than many of those, or groundbreaking. It's just another one like those. Yes, I know. I grew up in Germany. That these restrictions are common doesn't make them any better.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    so when was the last time you sent a contract to an airline for them to read and accept? Or is this another message from a fantasy universe where customers negotiate contracts with major corporations?
    - eru 4y ago
      Exactly at the same time I sent my cheeseburger recipe to McDonald's to implement. Ie never. If I don't like the Cheeseburger at McDonald's, I just go eat elsewhere. No need to regulate the taste of cheeseburgers, nor exactly how many pickles or what kind of cheese should be on them. You'd do the same with airline contracts. And people already do that, for the all the conditions that are not regulated.
      - jen20 4y ago
        You live in some kind of a fantasy land. Basically every airline offers the same terms, conditions and services. If you want to know what's coming industry-wide in 3 years, just keep an eye on what the most regressive is doing today.
        eru 4y ago
        Huh? My experience flying Singapore Airlines is very different from eg British Airways or Ryanair. (As a customer, I only care about stuff that actually affects me. Checking what's written in the contracts and official terms-and-conditions is at best a means to an end; especially since I am unlikely to go out and actually sue anyone. Mostly, I'll just avoid airline X, if I hear that other people are having trouble with them.)
        jen20 4y ago
        Great: try flying SQ from London to Dublin. BA is a perfect example - a few years ago it was an OK airline, but it has chased the policies of RyanAir (even hiring their CEO!) to the point where they are a complete shit show. You’re pretending there is a market where consumers have input where no such thing exists.
saalweachter 4y ago
> ... demanding compensation is a cumbersome process but you can get it ... Honestly this sounds like a point to address in addition? I'm pretty sure I already give a mailing address to airlines upon booking. You could require airlines to immediately -- say, within 5 business days -- mail a check to all passengers after canceling a flight under the stated conditions, rather than letting them wait until each passenger complains individually. Maybe let passengers elect to either receive a check for $X or a travel voucher for $Y > $X when booking.

Arnt 4y ago

That's not actually different from today. In both cases the airline has a contract with each of its passengers. The contract allows cancellation on terms specified in the contract, and requires payment on the due date, also specified. The airline has a duty to fulfil the contract once it has entered into the contract. That duty applies both before and after the payment due date (or payment dates, in many contract).

eru 4y ago
Exactly. And airlines and passengers should be allowed to pick the contract that most suites them. Instead of the government picking the 'one best' contract. One size fits none.
- Arnt 4y ago
  Germany already has a number of restrictions on contracts with regular people (corporations and certain persons are expected to look out for themselves). For example, phone sales can't be final at that time, there has to be a 14-day grace period starting from when the purchase agreement is accessible to both parties (IIRC). Mail-order vendors have to accept returns on most kinds of goods, by law not by convention. Warranties cannot be shorter than a specified limit. Apartment rental contracts cannot ban having children, and so on and so forth. The restrictions are real, even if most of a typical contract is still free to design and write by the parties. This suggested change isn't larger than many of those, or groundbreaking. It's just another one like those.
  - eru 4y ago
    > This suggested change isn't larger than many of those, or groundbreaking. It's just another one like those. Yes, I know. I grew up in Germany. That these restrictions are common doesn't make them any better.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  so when was the last time you sent a contract to an airline for them to read and accept? Or is this another message from a fantasy universe where customers negotiate contracts with major corporations?
  - eru 4y ago
    Exactly at the same time I sent my cheeseburger recipe to McDonald's to implement. Ie never. If I don't like the Cheeseburger at McDonald's, I just go eat elsewhere. No need to regulate the taste of cheeseburgers, nor exactly how many pickles or what kind of cheese should be on them. You'd do the same with airline contracts. And people already do that, for the all the conditions that are not regulated.
    - jen20 4y ago
      You live in some kind of a fantasy land. Basically every airline offers the same terms, conditions and services. If you want to know what's coming industry-wide in 3 years, just keep an eye on what the most regressive is doing today.
      - eru 4y ago
        Huh? My experience flying Singapore Airlines is very different from eg British Airways or Ryanair. (As a customer, I only care about stuff that actually affects me. Checking what's written in the contracts and official terms-and-conditions is at best a means to an end; especially since I am unlikely to go out and actually sue anyone. Mostly, I'll just avoid airline X, if I hear that other people are having trouble with them.)
        jen20 4y ago
        Great: try flying SQ from London to Dublin. BA is a perfect example - a few years ago it was an OK airline, but it has chased the policies of RyanAir (even hiring their CEO!) to the point where they are a complete shit show. You’re pretending there is a market where consumers have input where no such thing exists.

saalweachter 4y ago

> ... demanding compensation is a cumbersome process but you can get it ... Honestly this sounds like a point to address in addition? I'm pretty sure I already give a mailing address to airlines upon booking. You could require airlines to immediately -- say, within 5 business days -- mail a check to all passengers after canceling a flight under the stated conditions, rather than letting them wait until each passenger complains individually. Maybe let passengers elect to either receive a check for $X or a travel voucher for $Y > $X when booking.