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I'm almost ready to sell my DIY Windows framework and go back to mac. It won't go to sleep-- fans always spin unless I shut down completely. Forums aren't any h

I'm almost ready to sell my DIY Windows framework and go back to mac. It won't go to sleep-- fans always spin unless I shut down completely. Forums aren't any help. Anyone have this issue? Other commenters have similar complaints here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31433556 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31433556 I really wanted to support this company because I believe in repairability! But repairability is meaningless the software doesn't work... I'm not a 16 year old enthusiast anymore, I don't have the time or patience to troubleshoot drivers, firmware, devices etc. etc. :(

siva7 4y ago
Then a macbook is the right choice if you just want a device that works and got no time for tinkering around.
- arghwhat 4y ago
  The "just works" thing is unfortunately a thing of the past.
  - movedx 4y ago
    It's really... not. I've used MBPs for years (three generations of them) and they've literally (like, literally literally) Just Worked. But I'm sure you'll find stats and horror stories that say otherwise, as if, somehow, Apple (or anyone) is capable of producing hardware and software that's impossible to break, never fails, and lasts forever.
    - radicalbyte 4y ago
      I've been using Apple for a decade now and my experiences with the Apple Silicon machines reminded me of the Windows 95 -> Windows 2000 transition only with no way of actually getting things to work. It does a lot of things right - especially sleep - however I'm constantly running into problems with buggy software which is unfixable because Apple don't do compatibility. Also not having a battery which can be replaced or storage which can be user-upgraded is absolute garbage in 2022. EDIT: if I was still a gamer I'd be laughing the MacBook out of the room.
      - dewey 4y ago
        I feel like then you are just not the target audience. I haven't had the need to replace storage or battery for a decade. In the early MBP it was nice to change the battery as they degraded quickly but now it just doesn't happen any more and even my old 2015 MBP is still working fine. User upgradeable storage is a very niche feature.
        movedx 4y ago
        Exactly. I can't remember the last time I ever WANTED to upgrade storage or a battery. Is that even a problem anymore? Maybe for some?
      - movedx 4y ago
        > my experiences with the Apple Silicon machines ... however I'm constantly running into problems with buggy software which is unfixable because Apple don't do compatibility. You're aware that the compatibility of any software (that's not Apple software) is the responsibility of the software vendor with regards to making it work on Silicon? Have I misunderstood you here? You can't actually expect Apple to just magically make code designed for one CPU architecture just work on another? There's kernel level translations you can do between opcodes, but that can't be expected to be perfect. The perfect solution is the vendor updates their software.
        radicalbyte 4y ago
        That's the attitude of Apple and the reason why you should never use Apple for anything mission-critical. Microsoft on the other hand: Windows is literally full of work-arounds they added to ensure that new releases did not break existing software. Apple at this point is FAR larger company than Microsoft was in the early 2000s. They're a goliath and should be more than capable of doing what Microsoft did.
    - stevage 4y ago
      Meh, the last two that I've had: 2014 MBP: worked well for a couple of years, then developed a fault where it randomly half comes out of sleep, then gets very hot, even when closed in a bag. 2018 MBP: randomly completely crashes, with no warning whatsoever, roughly once a day.
      - anko 4y ago
        2022 m1 macbook pro here - and i have one from work too. never had either crash, haven't plugged this one in for literally days, and right now i have an ide, vscode, ableton, slack, chrome with like 400 tabs in multiple windows and it's cool to the touch. I think you'd like apple silicon macs.
      - movedx 4y ago
        I'm not sure of the point being made? Is it: manufacturing processes and software aren't perfect? And that only applies to Apple?
  - anko 4y ago
    why do you say that? genuinely curious.
rawrenstein 4y ago
I returned my 12th gen Framework and purchased an M1 Pro MBP. It was absolutely the right decision. I just wasn’t ready to accept the lower quality product for such a premium price as much as I wanted to support the company.
_ZeD_ 4y ago
problem is... the macbook are awful
okasaki 4y ago
Maybe it's a Windows issue. My dell xps won't sleep either and I have to shut it down for any kind of transport.
- throwaway48292 4y ago
  "Modern Standby"... And yes, it never works properly
  - nikau 4y ago
    absolutely pointless option - disable in the bios and live a peaceful life.
- askvictor 4y ago
  My dell (linux) doesn't sleep either. At least it keeps my back warm while in transit on those cold winter mornings.
- scaredginger 4y ago
  Not just Windows, it's at the hardware level. Intel has been removing S3 sleep mode from recent CPUs. It is insanely stupid
pixelbreaker 4y ago
Same here, I ditched mac for Framework, tried Windows, nope, fans always on, Ubuntu, battery died when lid closed in < 2 hours and fingerprint scanner didn't work. Fedora, same issue. I sold it and bought an M1 Pro. Nothing wrong with it so far. OK it was 3 times the price, but you get what you pay for.
TacticalCoder 4y ago
> I'm almost ready to sell my DIY Windows framework and go back to mac. If you do so make sure to buy the longest extended warranty you can, covering the slightest tiny thing that can happen to your M1 Mac. Mine was a fine machine, zero bug, while the screen worked. These M1 Mac laptops have brittle porcelain screens. As someone put it here: it's the bend-gate all over again. FWIW I've got both a 2013 and a 2014 MacBook Air as well as a 4 years old (?) LG Gram laptop. They all have their screens still working fine and I'm pretty sure I know how to handle a laptop: these new M1 laptops are just fragile.
- Tade0 4y ago
  I suspected there would be a catch preventing me from buying a MacBook. I damaged the screen in every laptop that I ever owned - either by creating pressure marks or - like in the most recent one - somehow stretching(either via temperature or flexing the surprisingly flimsy cover) the adhesive which kept all the LCD layers in place, creating a diagonal clouding pattern in the process. My next laptop will be a framework because then at least I will be able to easily replace the screen once the inevitable happens.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
    After hearing about this issue I went to the Apple store and tried to intentionally crack the screens on the display units. Closed the lids on several units with items between the screen and keyboard. Flexed the screen in several directions. Nothing.
    - _nalply 4y ago
      You need to do this several thousand times. Let's say you use your laptop 300 day a year and that you close the screen about 4 times a day. If the laptop is designed to withstand 2000 closes then your laptop will break after less than two years.
      - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
askvictor 4y ago
fwiw my Dell won't go to sleep either (on Linux at least)

siva7 4y ago

Then a macbook is the right choice if you just want a device that works and got no time for tinkering around.

arghwhat 4y ago
The "just works" thing is unfortunately a thing of the past.
- movedx 4y ago
  It's really... not. I've used MBPs for years (three generations of them) and they've literally (like, literally literally) Just Worked. But I'm sure you'll find stats and horror stories that say otherwise, as if, somehow, Apple (or anyone) is capable of producing hardware and software that's impossible to break, never fails, and lasts forever.
  - radicalbyte 4y ago
    I've been using Apple for a decade now and my experiences with the Apple Silicon machines reminded me of the Windows 95 -> Windows 2000 transition only with no way of actually getting things to work. It does a lot of things right - especially sleep - however I'm constantly running into problems with buggy software which is unfixable because Apple don't do compatibility. Also not having a battery which can be replaced or storage which can be user-upgraded is absolute garbage in 2022. EDIT: if I was still a gamer I'd be laughing the MacBook out of the room.
    - dewey 4y ago
      I feel like then you are just not the target audience. I haven't had the need to replace storage or battery for a decade. In the early MBP it was nice to change the battery as they degraded quickly but now it just doesn't happen any more and even my old 2015 MBP is still working fine. User upgradeable storage is a very niche feature.
      - movedx 4y ago
        Exactly. I can't remember the last time I ever WANTED to upgrade storage or a battery. Is that even a problem anymore? Maybe for some?
    - movedx 4y ago
      > my experiences with the Apple Silicon machines ... however I'm constantly running into problems with buggy software which is unfixable because Apple don't do compatibility. You're aware that the compatibility of any software (that's not Apple software) is the responsibility of the software vendor with regards to making it work on Silicon? Have I misunderstood you here? You can't actually expect Apple to just magically make code designed for one CPU architecture just work on another? There's kernel level translations you can do between opcodes, but that can't be expected to be perfect. The perfect solution is the vendor updates their software.
      - radicalbyte 4y ago
        That's the attitude of Apple and the reason why you should never use Apple for anything mission-critical. Microsoft on the other hand: Windows is literally full of work-arounds they added to ensure that new releases did not break existing software. Apple at this point is FAR larger company than Microsoft was in the early 2000s. They're a goliath and should be more than capable of doing what Microsoft did.
  - stevage 4y ago
    Meh, the last two that I've had: 2014 MBP: worked well for a couple of years, then developed a fault where it randomly half comes out of sleep, then gets very hot, even when closed in a bag. 2018 MBP: randomly completely crashes, with no warning whatsoever, roughly once a day.
    - anko 4y ago
      2022 m1 macbook pro here - and i have one from work too. never had either crash, haven't plugged this one in for literally days, and right now i have an ide, vscode, ableton, slack, chrome with like 400 tabs in multiple windows and it's cool to the touch. I think you'd like apple silicon macs.
    - movedx 4y ago
      I'm not sure of the point being made? Is it: manufacturing processes and software aren't perfect? And that only applies to Apple?
- anko 4y ago
  why do you say that? genuinely curious.

rawrenstein 4y ago

I returned my 12th gen Framework and purchased an M1 Pro MBP. It was absolutely the right decision. I just wasn’t ready to accept the lower quality product for such a premium price as much as I wanted to support the company.

_ZeD_ 4y ago

problem is... the macbook are awful

okasaki 4y ago

Maybe it's a Windows issue. My dell xps won't sleep either and I have to shut it down for any kind of transport.

throwaway48292 4y ago
"Modern Standby"... And yes, it never works properly
- nikau 4y ago
  absolutely pointless option - disable in the bios and live a peaceful life.
askvictor 4y ago
My dell (linux) doesn't sleep either. At least it keeps my back warm while in transit on those cold winter mornings.
scaredginger 4y ago
Not just Windows, it's at the hardware level. Intel has been removing S3 sleep mode from recent CPUs. It is insanely stupid

pixelbreaker 4y ago

Same here, I ditched mac for Framework, tried Windows, nope, fans always on, Ubuntu, battery died when lid closed in < 2 hours and fingerprint scanner didn't work. Fedora, same issue. I sold it and bought an M1 Pro. Nothing wrong with it so far. OK it was 3 times the price, but you get what you pay for.

TacticalCoder 4y ago

> I'm almost ready to sell my DIY Windows framework and go back to mac. If you do so make sure to buy the longest extended warranty you can, covering the slightest tiny thing that can happen to your M1 Mac. Mine was a fine machine, zero bug, while the screen worked. These M1 Mac laptops have brittle porcelain screens. As someone put it here: it's the bend-gate all over again. FWIW I've got both a 2013 and a 2014 MacBook Air as well as a 4 years old (?) LG Gram laptop. They all have their screens still working fine and I'm pretty sure I know how to handle a laptop: these new M1 laptops are just fragile.

Tade0 4y ago
I suspected there would be a catch preventing me from buying a MacBook. I damaged the screen in every laptop that I ever owned - either by creating pressure marks or - like in the most recent one - somehow stretching(either via temperature or flexing the surprisingly flimsy cover) the adhesive which kept all the LCD layers in place, creating a diagonal clouding pattern in the process. My next laptop will be a framework because then at least I will be able to easily replace the screen once the inevitable happens.
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  After hearing about this issue I went to the Apple store and tried to intentionally crack the screens on the display units. Closed the lids on several units with items between the screen and keyboard. Flexed the screen in several directions. Nothing.
  - _nalply 4y ago
    You need to do this several thousand times. Let's say you use your laptop 300 day a year and that you close the screen about 4 times a day. If the laptop is designed to withstand 2000 closes then your laptop will break after less than two years.
    - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago

askvictor 4y ago

fwiw my Dell won't go to sleep either (on Linux at least)