4 ms·

Oh please. Single engine planes are far more than toys for rich people. General aviation is training new airline pilots, medical flights, aerial surveying, char

by S201 4y ago

Oh please. Single engine planes are far more than toys for rich people. General aviation is training new airline pilots, medical flights, aerial surveying, charter flights otherwise inaccessible areas, and a method to fly supplies to areas during emergencies. This level of ignorance is extremely frustrating.

worewood 4y ago
Yeah, but what is the proportion of these flights relative to rich-people hobby flights? That matters.
- tjohns 4y ago
  Quick napkin math here... The estimate is that about 65% of general aviation traffic is related to "business and public services". [1][2] The other 35% is personal in nature. From that, about 22% is flight instruction for new pilots - most of whom are trying to get into the airlines. [3] So that would mean about 13% of general aviation is recreational. (Also, for what it's worth, many general aviation pilots I know aren't rich by any stretch.) [1]: https://download.aopa.org/hr/Report_on_General_Aviation_Trends.pdf https://download.aopa.org/hr/Report_on_General_Aviation_Tren... [2]: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GAOREPORTS-GAO-01-916/html/GAOREPORTS-GAO-01-916.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GAOREPORTS-GAO-01-916/ht... [3]: http://www.dviaviation.com/files/45181042.pdf http://www.dviaviation.com/files/45181042.pdf
  - bushbaba 4y ago
    Maybe in more rural areas. But are you really going to tell me that 65% of general aviation traffic in LA, SF, NYC,..etc is related to 'business and public services'. Do private jets for executives count as for 'business services'.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      If someone's traveling to/from a work purpose, why wouldn't a corporate jet flight be categorized as a business service? Taking that same jet to ski in Tahoe? Personal/recreational. Taking it to a business meeting with a customer/prospect? Business.
    - tjohns 4y ago
      The numbers I gave were national averages for the US. Of course those numbers will vary by location. That said... you'd be surprised how many flights out of the small GA airports in big cities aren't personal flights. Air ambulance, news crews, law enforcement, firefighting (usually more on the periphery of the city), utility companies doing inspections, and aerial photography all tend to operate from these locations. On the other hand, I'd certainly expect the number of flight school operations to be higher in areas with a large population.
      - p_l 4y ago
        Rural areas are more likely to be recreational plus agricultural, due to proximity of sophisticated clients in big cities.
    - p_l 4y ago
      A lot of what people think as "Silicon Valley" is actually centered around general aviation industry - for example San Mateo County at least in 2015 had majority share if its economy based on aviation, with majority of it being GA
      - throwayyy479087 4y ago
        Going to need a source for that claim - generally the largest industry in a given area is government, then hospitals or schools, then some specific niche. I don't think there's any airplane manufacture in NorCal anyway - this would be a bit more believable about Wichita.
        p_l 4y ago
        Because you're looking for "airplane manufacturer" and possibly large one. Though for example just a stolen throw from Google Mountain View campus you have Northrop and Lockheed-Martin. I can't find the original webpage after 7 years, but the source was San Mateo County page related to county-owned airports, and it included all sorts of aviation industry (both flying and ground side)

by S201 4y ago

worewood 4y ago

Yeah, but what is the proportion of these flights relative to rich-people hobby flights? That matters.

tjohns 4y ago
Quick napkin math here... The estimate is that about 65% of general aviation traffic is related to "business and public services". [1][2] The other 35% is personal in nature. From that, about 22% is flight instruction for new pilots - most of whom are trying to get into the airlines. [3] So that would mean about 13% of general aviation is recreational. (Also, for what it's worth, many general aviation pilots I know aren't rich by any stretch.) [1]: https://download.aopa.org/hr/Report_on_General_Aviation_Trends.pdf https://download.aopa.org/hr/Report_on_General_Aviation_Tren... [2]: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GAOREPORTS-GAO-01-916/html/GAOREPORTS-GAO-01-916.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GAOREPORTS-GAO-01-916/ht... [3]: http://www.dviaviation.com/files/45181042.pdf http://www.dviaviation.com/files/45181042.pdf
- bushbaba 4y ago
  Maybe in more rural areas. But are you really going to tell me that 65% of general aviation traffic in LA, SF, NYC,..etc is related to 'business and public services'. Do private jets for executives count as for 'business services'.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    If someone's traveling to/from a work purpose, why wouldn't a corporate jet flight be categorized as a business service? Taking that same jet to ski in Tahoe? Personal/recreational. Taking it to a business meeting with a customer/prospect? Business.
  - tjohns 4y ago
    The numbers I gave were national averages for the US. Of course those numbers will vary by location. That said... you'd be surprised how many flights out of the small GA airports in big cities aren't personal flights. Air ambulance, news crews, law enforcement, firefighting (usually more on the periphery of the city), utility companies doing inspections, and aerial photography all tend to operate from these locations. On the other hand, I'd certainly expect the number of flight school operations to be higher in areas with a large population.
    - p_l 4y ago
      Rural areas are more likely to be recreational plus agricultural, due to proximity of sophisticated clients in big cities.
  - p_l 4y ago
    A lot of what people think as "Silicon Valley" is actually centered around general aviation industry - for example San Mateo County at least in 2015 had majority share if its economy based on aviation, with majority of it being GA
    - throwayyy479087 4y ago
      Going to need a source for that claim - generally the largest industry in a given area is government, then hospitals or schools, then some specific niche. I don't think there's any airplane manufacture in NorCal anyway - this would be a bit more believable about Wichita.
      - p_l 4y ago
        Because you're looking for "airplane manufacturer" and possibly large one. Though for example just a stolen throw from Google Mountain View campus you have Northrop and Lockheed-Martin. I can't find the original webpage after 7 years, but the source was San Mateo County page related to county-owned airports, and it included all sorts of aviation industry (both flying and ground side)