14 ms·

Framework is now available in Australia

239 points by tony-allan 4y ago

rch 4y ago
I've been happy with my Framework, running Fedora w/ i3wm. It's a little annoying to switch from a full-size MBP to the smaller form factor though. Hopefully we'll see a larger model at some point.
- arthurcolle 4y ago
  Whats full size? 16? Yeah I like the 16 or 15 inch form factor but that MacBook Air M2 has stolen my heart and portability feels important to me even though I am usually just at my apt. Does your Framework come with integrated or discrete graphics? Just curious.
  - SirGiggles 4y ago
    It's all Intel iGPUs, there are no discrete GPU offerings E: IIRC some in the community have reported that the USB-C expansion slots are in fact Thunderbolt 4 (I'm not exactly sure on this point but my recollection is TB4 rather than TB3) so you could go the eGPU route
  - rch 4y ago
    Sibling comment covered it, and I only see integrated graphics on the website. I said 'full size' since I've got both 15 and 16 inch MBPs, of various generations. Personally, I appreciate that Alacritty works well with what I've got on the Framework.
paranoidrobot 4y ago
There's more relevant information here on their community page: https://community.frame.work/t/now-available-for-pre-order-in-australia/22089 https://community.frame.work/t/now-available-for-pre-order-i... Unfortunately it's not clear if their pricing is in USD, CAD, or AUD. Quite a difference between a laptop being priced at USD$1,639.00 (~=$2,414.25) or AUD$1,639.00
- chadash 4y ago
  If you go to their site and select a region, it looks like prices are the prices for that region in the local currency. It’s a little bit more expensive to buy a laptop in Australia (starting price on DIY 12th gen is ~$870 USD vs ~$820 in the US, but that’s seems reasonable given tremendous currency fluctuations lately, plus added cost of servicing a smaller market.
  - caf 4y ago
    Australian prices have to include 10% GST (sales tax), so the Australian price is probably actually a little cheaper.
- chrismorgan 4y ago
  If they're actively advertising to Australians, consumer law dictates that the prices must be AUD inclusive of any applicable taxes (which normally just means GST), unless clearly stated otherwise and a permitted exception. Have you some reason to suspect they're doing it wrong?
  - paranoidrobot 4y ago
    > consumer law dictates I've come across plenty of overseas online stores that "advertise" to Australians that don't follow ACL, apply GST, etc. I'm also not entirely certain that ACL dictates that they must advertise it in AUD. A quick browse of the ACL Sales Practices PDF[1] only mentions that currency here: A price is not a ‘displayed price’ when it is: [...] not in Australian currency, or unlikely to be interpreted as Australian currency. " [1] > Have you some reason to suspect they're doing it wrong? Decades of buying stuff online from other suppliers who advertise as shipping to Australia, just show stuff with a $ symbol and mean USD. It's not a Framework-specific thing, it's just every online store that isn't clearly Australian I look for that currency code beside the symbol. After it was pointed out (a few times now) that there's an AUD symbol in the top of the page, then it's now clear in my mind. [1] https://consumer.gov.au/sites/consumer/files/2016/05/0553FT_ACL-guides_SalesPractices_web.pdf https://consumer.gov.au/sites/consumer/files/2016/05/0553FT_...
- 4y ago
chrismorgan 4y ago
An interesting effect of the DIY model is that you can see just how large the markup is on individual components, and source them otherwise if you desire. 500GB - WD_BLACK™ SN850 NVMe™ for $189? I can find that exact item for $139 from quite a few places. 32GB (1 x 32GB) DDR4-3200 for $256? I just ordered one for my current laptop for $149 (+ $11 shipping since I live in the country and can't just drop by a store), though no guarantee on it being the same brand (some start at $20-30 more).
- suprjami 4y ago
  A little markup like this is not unusual, especially considering the USD-AUD exchange rate is weak and volatile. Plus the labour for someone to install the drive is not free. At least it's not the Apple markup. To go from 256G to 512G in an M2 Air is an extra AU$450.
  - chrismorgan 4y ago
    That's where the DIY aspect makes it more interesting: you're putting it together anyway, so the labour aspect is removed and it's pure markup. And I wouldn't call 30-60% a little, though it's not dissimilar from other non-Apple OEMs (Apple being in a league of their own). (I didn't sample any but those two items. Others may vary.)
    - tuatoru 4y ago
      Not exactly pure. There's labor involved in getting things packaged up nicely for a good DIY experience. And possibly testing/qualifying them beforehand.
      - chrismorgan 4y ago
        From a quick glance at someone’s unboxing video, they’re shipping these components in their original, unopened packaging for the DIY edition. I therefore reaffirm pure, because what they’re doing is part of standard retail markup and equivalent to what’s other retailers provide.
alfiedotwtf 4y ago
Can anyone comment on battery life? I'm sick of only getting < 2 hours with Linux laptops.
- kaushikc 4y ago
  Around 7 hours https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/framework-laptop-12th-gen-2022#:~:text=Battery%20Life%20on%20the%20Framework%20Laptop%20(12th%20Gen)&text=The%20Framework%20Laptop%20ran%20for,a%20charger%20with%20you%2C%20too https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/framework-laptop-12th-g....
  - alfiedotwtf 4y ago
    7 hours? I'd be happy with that. Thanks, I just found my next laptop!
    - jmole 4y ago
      If you clicked the link, you'd see that framework has actually the lowest battery life among the 4 models compared.
      - LegitShady 4y ago
        he's making sure the battery life is enough, not buying it specifically for the battery life. It having the lowest battery life of the 4 tested doesn't matter as long as it meets his minimum requirement, considering none of the other laptops are taking framework's approach to design either.
        kaushikc 4y ago
        You can swap the battery in a few minutes if charging is a concern. https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Battery+Replacement+Guide/85 https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Battery+Replacement+Guide/85
        4y ago
jaimex2 4y ago
Definitely would consider for my next laptop if GPUs become available.
byhemechi 4y ago
I can't actually tell if these prices are in aussie or US dollars, seems like an oversight not to mark it somewhere edit: i am actually very stupid
- worthless-trash 4y ago
  No sir, you are not. You are under the same condition that many overseas people have, and that is expecting to see "price" not correctly stated, depending on many factors, none of which are clearly marked. I have seen GST added TWICE from some american websites. Dont beat yourself up about it mate.
- chadash 4y ago
  As answered elsewhere, prices for Australia are in USD and include GST so all-in are actually right around the same as you’d pay in the US (depending on your local sales tax)
LogicWolfe 4y ago
Just last week my old Dell XPS died and I was wishing these were available in Australia. Really glad I was a bit slow to pick out a replacement! Got my preorder placed.
girvo 4y ago
Yay! Now I can buy one, that’s awesome. I’d wanted to for ages.
endgame 4y ago
I'm almost looking forward to my current laptop dying, because this is an awesome development. Congratulations on the launch.
- lucb1e 4y ago
  Similar here. Got my current laptop exactly three years before Framework launched, and it's still holding out unfortunately (hated this lenovo from the start, but a shame to trash it, and wouldn't wish it upon others so second hand feels crappy also). Then again, the current 13" Framework laptops are too tiny anyway (my old man's eyes can't see pixels that small (I'm 30), would have to do constant zooming and UI scaling...). Very much hoping they've got a regular 15.x" offering by the time this laptop finally gives up the ghost because I'm almost certainly getting one of these Frameworks!
- vwoolf 4y ago
  You can always sell it on Craigslist; no need to wait for it to die.
deleted 4y ago
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commandersaki 4y ago
Tossing up between an i5 and an i7 for someone who does both programming and devops. Languages used are Go/C/C++. Go builds are spectacularly fast so I don't think I'll notice a difference between i5 and i7. For C/C++ some projects I work on are large, for example the Linux kernel, but again I don't think I'll notice a huge gap between i5 and i7. I think what interests me in the i5 versus i7 aside from i5 being cheaper is that the i5 might be more energy efficient than the i7; is that even a valid claim? Also really hoping that some day they'll release a laptop keyboard with the inverted-T layout like Apple laptops.
- RainaRelanah 4y ago
  For laptops, CPU choice often comes down to wait for reviews and thermal tests. An i9 can perform like an i5 if it's on your lap. Or it can perform like an i5 if it's on your desk. All comes down to cooling efficiency.
- infinityplus1 4y ago
  If you can afford it, then just get the i7. If you get an i5, you'll keep wondering how good the i7 would be. Or decide after seeing benchmarks.
- lhl 4y ago
  Typically, higher SKUs within the same power class (eg, U/P/H) are better binned so tend to not only perform better but also more efficiently, since they need to reach higher clocks at the same TDP. The biggest performance difference between the i5-1240P and i7-1260P BTW though will probably be that the i5 only has 12MB of L3 cache, while the i7 has 18MB: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/compare.html?productIds=226254,132221 https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/compare.html?pro...
p1necone 4y ago
I ordered one to New Zealand when they initially released. Had no problem going through a shipping redirection service (YouShop) but did have to pay import duty and some other fees on top of regular GST which wasn't cheap. Also pretty sure I have no warranty coverage because framework wasn't technically selling outside of the USA at the time. Still totally happy with my purchase. I imagine the purchase experience would be a lot smoother now.
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  They really bleed us dry, don't they? We get shit all choice for computers and when we branch out beyond noel leeming or pbtech, we get slapped with import duties.
  - JCharante 4y ago
    Isn’t it your own government enforcing import fees?
    - CallMeJim 4y ago
      That would be who the "they" refers to, yes!
  - andreareina 4y ago
    And you you still get to pay the sales tax at the origin to boot!
cetra3 4y ago
Why do I need to buy a copy of Windows 11 with this laptop? Surely I should have the option of excluding it Also I can't see any discrete GPU options, I'm assuming that'll come later
- LukeShu 4y ago
  You can exclude it if you select the "DIY Edition".
- kelnos 4y ago
  Discrete GPU in a laptop of this size would be thermally... difficult.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- verandaguy 4y ago
  Are the bring-your-own-OS editions not available in Aus? I'm seeing some right below this press release, but I'm browsing from Canada. I also received a Framework just today, and it had no preinstalled OS. RE: discrete GPUs, I'd expect those to be available on substantially later or substantially different model; the thermal needs are significant, and it's usually unnecessary on Framework's current target market of workstation-class laptops.
ncmncm 4y ago
I gave up on waiting for one with AMD cores, come July. It was not easy to find an AMD laptop with 4K 16" screen and socketed RAM at 32G... I had to accept one with an Nvidia GPU (3060M) in it I won't use, and which nouveau turns out not to support. So, no HDMI until that gets fixed.
- jfim 4y ago
  Did they ever announce that they'd have an AMD version? There doesn't seem to be that many AMD laptop options unfortunately.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    I believe the founder has dropped hints that they're possibly working on AMD boards, because I've asked this very question and got a similar response from them here on HN.
  - csdreamer7 4y ago
    The company said it would look into that, also ARM and RISC-V mainboard versions. Linus Tech Tips actually reached out to AMD on behalf of Framework and there he said there was no response on either side.
    - OJFord 4y ago
      Not exactly shocking is it? He's approximately nobody to them. Why him? I would think AMD sales far more likely to respond to Framework itself, a potential albeit small customer.
      - scrlk 4y ago
        Linus is an investor in Framework [0]. Secondly, I think he was giving it a shot as he's probably the largest media personality in the enthusiast PC space, and figured that reaching out to his AMD contacts would yield some results. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYc922ntnKM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYc922ntnKM
teruakohatu 4y ago
Hopefully New Zealand follows! That they didn't include us in Australia is a bit disappointing.
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  Admit that the pavlova and flat white are Australian and we'll include you.
  - teruakohatu 4y ago
    You can have flat white. But we both know the truth about the pav!
    - Handytinge 4y ago
      We'll take our pav mate, but you can keep your electric fence and zorb ball.
psyclobe 4y ago
I sure love mine, except for the fact that the speakers are barely audible
mixmastamyk 4y ago
Beware if time-sensitive in US, said it would ship out in August so I ordered one for school. Still hasn’t arrived yet, though now finally has a tracking number.
zmmmmm 4y ago
Great to see. Although it just makes me more sad that I think I can't live with the screen size / resolution. I buy laptops as portable workstations and for me 14.5-15 inch is the threshold where the screen becomes sufficient to work for full productivity. The new 16" Macs are amazing in this regard. But I'm excited nonetheless and perhaps at some stage I could see this being a nice companion to my full size laptop for other purposes.
- tarjei_huse 4y ago
  How does 16" screens work on planes? I'm in the market for a new laptop (any ETA on Norwegian support for frameworks?) and the 16" screens of the new Thinkpads are looking very nice.
  - zmmmmm 4y ago
    Haven't travelled for a few months but in the case of the 16" macbooks, they have the same external profile as the older 15" models because the bezels are so small and the camera notch is embedded into the screen space. I don't expect it will be highly usable on a plane, but it won't be worse than 15". Not sure what the screen design on the Thinkpads is but unless they've done the same trick of implementing a notch that protrudes into the screen for the camera, I couldn't see how they'd be as good.
princevegeta89 4y ago
Was really thinking to get of these laptops but it looks like the battery they put in those is pretty small in terms of capacity. Backed out
- kybernetikos 4y ago
  I have a framework and while I like most aspects of it, it's true that the battery life is not amazing. I hope that a future iteration fixes that. I was really impressed that they made it so you could upgrade the original model to have the same improved lid and motherboard.
  - princevegeta89 4y ago
    Which means, you could simply pop in a newer battery when it gets released?
lhl 4y ago
For those evaluating the new Framework 12th gen as a Linux laptop, I got a Batch 1 DIY Edition last month, and wrote a big review (includes covering compatibility, performance, and power usage, and some comparison vs my old Ryzen 4800H system): https://github.com/lhl/linuxlaptops/wiki/2022-Framework-Laptop-DIY-Edition-12th-Gen-Intel-Batch-1 https://github.com/lhl/linuxlaptops/wiki/2022-Framework-Lapt...
- bubblethink 4y ago
  In your alternatives considered section, you didn't consider a single mainstream Thinkpad or Dell laptop ? At least the gen 3 Thinkpads with Ryzen seem pretty good, although configs and availability are hit or miss.
  - lhl 4y ago
    Most modern ThinkPads only have soldered RAM/max out at 32GB so were basically a no-go for me. They also had 2mo+ delivery lead times for BTO options, which also put it out of the running. I wasn't super happy w/ my last Thinkpad (X250) and general sentiment seems to be that they've continued to go downhill, so unless they release something that hits it out of the park from a design perspective then I'm not so interested. (The Z13 is actually pretty neat now that it's available and discounted, but only 2 USB-C ports doesn't work for me.) Dell QC has been pretty terrible the past decade, and they're inferior in basically every way (Intel-only, mediocre cooling solutions, meh battery size, expensive, long-standing (like multi-year, basically entire product life cycle) unresolved bugs/incompatibilities even for their dev edition versions, soldered RAM, awful support, etc). One other thing is that if you are a Linux user, I really don't see much point in rolling the dice/fighting obscure compatibility bugs (most of them being BIOS/ACPI bugs that are hard to impossible for mere mortal end-users to fix) when there are similar (or better) alternatives that are known to work OOTB, or better yet, explicitly support Linux.
    - wraptile 4y ago
      Do people really need more than 32GB of RAM? I'm struggling to come up with a scenario that needs so much RAM.
brendanmc6 4y ago
I'm almost ready to sell my DIY Windows framework and go back to mac. It won't go to sleep-- fans always spin unless I shut down completely. Forums aren't any help. Anyone have this issue? Other commenters have similar complaints here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31433556 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31433556 I really wanted to support this company because I believe in repairability! But repairability is meaningless the software doesn't work... I'm not a 16 year old enthusiast anymore, I don't have the time or patience to troubleshoot drivers, firmware, devices etc. etc. :(
- siva7 4y ago
  Then a macbook is the right choice if you just want a device that works and got no time for tinkering around.
  - arghwhat 4y ago
    The "just works" thing is unfortunately a thing of the past.
    - movedx 4y ago
      It's really... not. I've used MBPs for years (three generations of them) and they've literally (like, literally literally) Just Worked. But I'm sure you'll find stats and horror stories that say otherwise, as if, somehow, Apple (or anyone) is capable of producing hardware and software that's impossible to break, never fails, and lasts forever.
      - radicalbyte 4y ago
        I've been using Apple for a decade now and my experiences with the Apple Silicon machines reminded me of the Windows 95 -> Windows 2000 transition only with no way of actually getting things to work. It does a lot of things right - especially sleep - however I'm constantly running into problems with buggy software which is unfixable because Apple don't do compatibility. Also not having a battery which can be replaced or storage which can be user-upgraded is absolute garbage in 2022. EDIT: if I was still a gamer I'd be laughing the MacBook out of the room.
markeibes 4y ago
If only they cared minimally about æsthetics.
kdtsh 4y ago
I held off replacing my 2015 MBP for a long time, but a couple months ago I blew out one of the speakers and the quality of all replacement speakers I could find for sale online looked very suspect. I got my new MBA M2 just the other day, I think if this announcement had happened last month I would have seriously considered it but clearly it was not to be. Maybe next time, I’d love to get my hands on a Framework and give it the Ship of Theseus treatment. The MBA M2 is great by the way, I love Linux on the desktop but it’s been a while since I had working touchpad gestures and sleep/hibernate that didn’t just die sometimes. No moving parts, all-day battery life, and having my computer in Find My is nice too. I know though once the storage starts going it’ll be an expensive replacement or a new computer altogether. (Also, the Framework is available for pre-order - the turnaround on my new laptop was about 3 weeks but I have no idea how long I’d wait for a Framework, is it still being released in limited batches?)
- commandersaki 4y ago
  Did you find a replacement speaker for the 2015 MBP? I have a 2015 MBP 13" that needs a replacement speaker, and I've seen a lot of parts online, but not sure if they'll be the same quality as the originals.
cmroanirgo 4y ago
Compare the 'Performance' model (i7-1260P, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD) $2269AUD with a similar StarBook with Linux and choice of firmware (Am' Megatrends vs Coreboot) at $1831AUD, and the StarBook has plenty of ports too. The 400nit display is also very enticing to me. https://au.starlabs.systems/products/starbook?variant=42931360596222 https://au.starlabs.systems/products/starbook?variant=429313... Every day I consider getting one... or an M2. But the deal breaker for an M1/M2 is the soldered SSD. edited: typo in price
- zsims 4y ago
  > $18321AUD Is that a typo? Or are they actually that exxy?
ex3ndr 4y ago
Super anything that this notebook is not really linux-friendly, from time to time something didn't work. For example, latest Qubes OS won't work with wifi making Qubes almost useless. You also can't replace it with another WiFi module since there are no list that could be compatible with framework.
guerby 4y ago
Just upgraded my frame.work motherboard+CPU from gen11 to gen12 following: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Mainboard+Replacement+Guide/79 https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Mainboard+Replacement+Guide/... The only annoyance is the battery connector where you need to be extra careful not to bend a pin (I wonder why they couldn't do like other connectors with more plastic guide length to avoid angled insertion). - 64GB RAM is really nice on a laptop - also nice to be able to add "internal"-like storage with their 1TB NVME extension card. Note: I run debian 11 on it with GNOME, fingerprint reader supported by installing two tiny debian testing packages.
- samatman 4y ago
  How are the thermals?
  - guerby 4y ago
    /sys/class/power_supply/BAT1/ reports 4.4 Watt at idle with GNOME desktop, a terminal, and min screen brightness. thermald and powertop suggested tunables.
sireat 4y ago
Please, please, bring Framework availability to the rest of EU! Sure, VAT's are different but it is supposed to be a common market after all...

239 points by tony-allan 4y ago

rch 4y ago

I've been happy with my Framework, running Fedora w/ i3wm. It's a little annoying to switch from a full-size MBP to the smaller form factor though. Hopefully we'll see a larger model at some point.

arthurcolle 4y ago
Whats full size? 16? Yeah I like the 16 or 15 inch form factor but that MacBook Air M2 has stolen my heart and portability feels important to me even though I am usually just at my apt. Does your Framework come with integrated or discrete graphics? Just curious.
- SirGiggles 4y ago
  It's all Intel iGPUs, there are no discrete GPU offerings E: IIRC some in the community have reported that the USB-C expansion slots are in fact Thunderbolt 4 (I'm not exactly sure on this point but my recollection is TB4 rather than TB3) so you could go the eGPU route
- rch 4y ago
  Sibling comment covered it, and I only see integrated graphics on the website. I said 'full size' since I've got both 15 and 16 inch MBPs, of various generations. Personally, I appreciate that Alacritty works well with what I've got on the Framework.

paranoidrobot 4y ago

There's more relevant information here on their community page: https://community.frame.work/t/now-available-for-pre-order-in-australia/22089 https://community.frame.work/t/now-available-for-pre-order-i... Unfortunately it's not clear if their pricing is in USD, CAD, or AUD. Quite a difference between a laptop being priced at USD$1,639.00 (~=$2,414.25) or AUD$1,639.00

chadash 4y ago
If you go to their site and select a region, it looks like prices are the prices for that region in the local currency. It’s a little bit more expensive to buy a laptop in Australia (starting price on DIY 12th gen is ~$870 USD vs ~$820 in the US, but that’s seems reasonable given tremendous currency fluctuations lately, plus added cost of servicing a smaller market.
- caf 4y ago
  Australian prices have to include 10% GST (sales tax), so the Australian price is probably actually a little cheaper.
chrismorgan 4y ago
If they're actively advertising to Australians, consumer law dictates that the prices must be AUD inclusive of any applicable taxes (which normally just means GST), unless clearly stated otherwise and a permitted exception. Have you some reason to suspect they're doing it wrong?
- paranoidrobot 4y ago
  > consumer law dictates I've come across plenty of overseas online stores that "advertise" to Australians that don't follow ACL, apply GST, etc. I'm also not entirely certain that ACL dictates that they must advertise it in AUD. A quick browse of the ACL Sales Practices PDF[1] only mentions that currency here: A price is not a ‘displayed price’ when it is: [...] not in Australian currency, or unlikely to be interpreted as Australian currency. " [1] > Have you some reason to suspect they're doing it wrong? Decades of buying stuff online from other suppliers who advertise as shipping to Australia, just show stuff with a $ symbol and mean USD. It's not a Framework-specific thing, it's just every online store that isn't clearly Australian I look for that currency code beside the symbol. After it was pointed out (a few times now) that there's an AUD symbol in the top of the page, then it's now clear in my mind. [1] https://consumer.gov.au/sites/consumer/files/2016/05/0553FT_ACL-guides_SalesPractices_web.pdf https://consumer.gov.au/sites/consumer/files/2016/05/0553FT_...
4y ago

chrismorgan 4y ago

An interesting effect of the DIY model is that you can see just how large the markup is on individual components, and source them otherwise if you desire. 500GB - WD_BLACK™ SN850 NVMe™ for $189? I can find that exact item for $139 from quite a few places. 32GB (1 x 32GB) DDR4-3200 for $256? I just ordered one for my current laptop for $149 (+ $11 shipping since I live in the country and can't just drop by a store), though no guarantee on it being the same brand (some start at $20-30 more).

suprjami 4y ago
A little markup like this is not unusual, especially considering the USD-AUD exchange rate is weak and volatile. Plus the labour for someone to install the drive is not free. At least it's not the Apple markup. To go from 256G to 512G in an M2 Air is an extra AU$450.
- chrismorgan 4y ago
  That's where the DIY aspect makes it more interesting: you're putting it together anyway, so the labour aspect is removed and it's pure markup. And I wouldn't call 30-60% a little, though it's not dissimilar from other non-Apple OEMs (Apple being in a league of their own). (I didn't sample any but those two items. Others may vary.)
  - tuatoru 4y ago
    Not exactly pure. There's labor involved in getting things packaged up nicely for a good DIY experience. And possibly testing/qualifying them beforehand.
    - chrismorgan 4y ago
      From a quick glance at someone’s unboxing video, they’re shipping these components in their original, unopened packaging for the DIY edition. I therefore reaffirm pure, because what they’re doing is part of standard retail markup and equivalent to what’s other retailers provide.

alfiedotwtf 4y ago

Can anyone comment on battery life? I'm sick of only getting < 2 hours with Linux laptops.

kaushikc 4y ago
Around 7 hours https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/framework-laptop-12th-gen-2022#:~:text=Battery%20Life%20on%20the%20Framework%20Laptop%20(12th%20Gen)&text=The%20Framework%20Laptop%20ran%20for,a%20charger%20with%20you%2C%20too https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/framework-laptop-12th-g....
- alfiedotwtf 4y ago
  7 hours? I'd be happy with that. Thanks, I just found my next laptop!
  - jmole 4y ago
    If you clicked the link, you'd see that framework has actually the lowest battery life among the 4 models compared.
    - LegitShady 4y ago
      he's making sure the battery life is enough, not buying it specifically for the battery life. It having the lowest battery life of the 4 tested doesn't matter as long as it meets his minimum requirement, considering none of the other laptops are taking framework's approach to design either.
      - kaushikc 4y ago
        You can swap the battery in a few minutes if charging is a concern. https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Battery+Replacement+Guide/85 https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Battery+Replacement+Guide/85
        4y ago

jaimex2 4y ago

Definitely would consider for my next laptop if GPUs become available.

byhemechi 4y ago

I can't actually tell if these prices are in aussie or US dollars, seems like an oversight not to mark it somewhere edit: i am actually very stupid

worthless-trash 4y ago
No sir, you are not. You are under the same condition that many overseas people have, and that is expecting to see "price" not correctly stated, depending on many factors, none of which are clearly marked. I have seen GST added TWICE from some american websites. Dont beat yourself up about it mate.
chadash 4y ago
As answered elsewhere, prices for Australia are in USD and include GST so all-in are actually right around the same as you’d pay in the US (depending on your local sales tax)

LogicWolfe 4y ago

Just last week my old Dell XPS died and I was wishing these were available in Australia. Really glad I was a bit slow to pick out a replacement! Got my preorder placed.

girvo 4y ago

Yay! Now I can buy one, that’s awesome. I’d wanted to for ages.

endgame 4y ago

I'm almost looking forward to my current laptop dying, because this is an awesome development. Congratulations on the launch.

lucb1e 4y ago
Similar here. Got my current laptop exactly three years before Framework launched, and it's still holding out unfortunately (hated this lenovo from the start, but a shame to trash it, and wouldn't wish it upon others so second hand feels crappy also). Then again, the current 13" Framework laptops are too tiny anyway (my old man's eyes can't see pixels that small (I'm 30), would have to do constant zooming and UI scaling...). Very much hoping they've got a regular 15.x" offering by the time this laptop finally gives up the ghost because I'm almost certainly getting one of these Frameworks!
vwoolf 4y ago
You can always sell it on Craigslist; no need to wait for it to die.

deleted 4y ago

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commandersaki 4y ago

Tossing up between an i5 and an i7 for someone who does both programming and devops. Languages used are Go/C/C++. Go builds are spectacularly fast so I don't think I'll notice a difference between i5 and i7. For C/C++ some projects I work on are large, for example the Linux kernel, but again I don't think I'll notice a huge gap between i5 and i7. I think what interests me in the i5 versus i7 aside from i5 being cheaper is that the i5 might be more energy efficient than the i7; is that even a valid claim? Also really hoping that some day they'll release a laptop keyboard with the inverted-T layout like Apple laptops.

RainaRelanah 4y ago
For laptops, CPU choice often comes down to wait for reviews and thermal tests. An i9 can perform like an i5 if it's on your lap. Or it can perform like an i5 if it's on your desk. All comes down to cooling efficiency.
infinityplus1 4y ago
If you can afford it, then just get the i7. If you get an i5, you'll keep wondering how good the i7 would be. Or decide after seeing benchmarks.
lhl 4y ago
Typically, higher SKUs within the same power class (eg, U/P/H) are better binned so tend to not only perform better but also more efficiently, since they need to reach higher clocks at the same TDP. The biggest performance difference between the i5-1240P and i7-1260P BTW though will probably be that the i5 only has 12MB of L3 cache, while the i7 has 18MB: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/compare.html?productIds=226254,132221 https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/compare.html?pro...

p1necone 4y ago

I ordered one to New Zealand when they initially released. Had no problem going through a shipping redirection service (YouShop) but did have to pay import duty and some other fees on top of regular GST which wasn't cheap. Also pretty sure I have no warranty coverage because framework wasn't technically selling outside of the USA at the time. Still totally happy with my purchase. I imagine the purchase experience would be a lot smoother now.

LAC-Tech 4y ago
They really bleed us dry, don't they? We get shit all choice for computers and when we branch out beyond noel leeming or pbtech, we get slapped with import duties.
- JCharante 4y ago
  Isn’t it your own government enforcing import fees?
  - CallMeJim 4y ago
    That would be who the "they" refers to, yes!
- andreareina 4y ago
  And you you still get to pay the sales tax at the origin to boot!

cetra3 4y ago

Why do I need to buy a copy of Windows 11 with this laptop? Surely I should have the option of excluding it Also I can't see any discrete GPU options, I'm assuming that'll come later

LukeShu 4y ago
You can exclude it if you select the "DIY Edition".
kelnos 4y ago
Discrete GPU in a laptop of this size would be thermally... difficult.
deleted 4y ago
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verandaguy 4y ago
Are the bring-your-own-OS editions not available in Aus? I'm seeing some right below this press release, but I'm browsing from Canada. I also received a Framework just today, and it had no preinstalled OS. RE: discrete GPUs, I'd expect those to be available on substantially later or substantially different model; the thermal needs are significant, and it's usually unnecessary on Framework's current target market of workstation-class laptops.

ncmncm 4y ago

I gave up on waiting for one with AMD cores, come July. It was not easy to find an AMD laptop with 4K 16" screen and socketed RAM at 32G... I had to accept one with an Nvidia GPU (3060M) in it I won't use, and which nouveau turns out not to support. So, no HDMI until that gets fixed.

jfim 4y ago
Did they ever announce that they'd have an AMD version? There doesn't seem to be that many AMD laptop options unfortunately.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  I believe the founder has dropped hints that they're possibly working on AMD boards, because I've asked this very question and got a similar response from them here on HN.
- csdreamer7 4y ago
  The company said it would look into that, also ARM and RISC-V mainboard versions. Linus Tech Tips actually reached out to AMD on behalf of Framework and there he said there was no response on either side.
  - OJFord 4y ago
    Not exactly shocking is it? He's approximately nobody to them. Why him? I would think AMD sales far more likely to respond to Framework itself, a potential albeit small customer.
    - scrlk 4y ago
      Linus is an investor in Framework [0]. Secondly, I think he was giving it a shot as he's probably the largest media personality in the enthusiast PC space, and figured that reaching out to his AMD contacts would yield some results. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYc922ntnKM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYc922ntnKM

teruakohatu 4y ago

Hopefully New Zealand follows! That they didn't include us in Australia is a bit disappointing.

2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
Admit that the pavlova and flat white are Australian and we'll include you.
- teruakohatu 4y ago
  You can have flat white. But we both know the truth about the pav!
  - Handytinge 4y ago
    We'll take our pav mate, but you can keep your electric fence and zorb ball.

psyclobe 4y ago

I sure love mine, except for the fact that the speakers are barely audible

mixmastamyk 4y ago

Beware if time-sensitive in US, said it would ship out in August so I ordered one for school. Still hasn’t arrived yet, though now finally has a tracking number.

zmmmmm 4y ago

Great to see. Although it just makes me more sad that I think I can't live with the screen size / resolution. I buy laptops as portable workstations and for me 14.5-15 inch is the threshold where the screen becomes sufficient to work for full productivity. The new 16" Macs are amazing in this regard. But I'm excited nonetheless and perhaps at some stage I could see this being a nice companion to my full size laptop for other purposes.

tarjei_huse 4y ago
How does 16" screens work on planes? I'm in the market for a new laptop (any ETA on Norwegian support for frameworks?) and the 16" screens of the new Thinkpads are looking very nice.
- zmmmmm 4y ago
  Haven't travelled for a few months but in the case of the 16" macbooks, they have the same external profile as the older 15" models because the bezels are so small and the camera notch is embedded into the screen space. I don't expect it will be highly usable on a plane, but it won't be worse than 15". Not sure what the screen design on the Thinkpads is but unless they've done the same trick of implementing a notch that protrudes into the screen for the camera, I couldn't see how they'd be as good.

princevegeta89 4y ago

Was really thinking to get of these laptops but it looks like the battery they put in those is pretty small in terms of capacity. Backed out

kybernetikos 4y ago
I have a framework and while I like most aspects of it, it's true that the battery life is not amazing. I hope that a future iteration fixes that. I was really impressed that they made it so you could upgrade the original model to have the same improved lid and motherboard.
- princevegeta89 4y ago
  Which means, you could simply pop in a newer battery when it gets released?

lhl 4y ago

For those evaluating the new Framework 12th gen as a Linux laptop, I got a Batch 1 DIY Edition last month, and wrote a big review (includes covering compatibility, performance, and power usage, and some comparison vs my old Ryzen 4800H system): https://github.com/lhl/linuxlaptops/wiki/2022-Framework-Laptop-DIY-Edition-12th-Gen-Intel-Batch-1 https://github.com/lhl/linuxlaptops/wiki/2022-Framework-Lapt...

bubblethink 4y ago
In your alternatives considered section, you didn't consider a single mainstream Thinkpad or Dell laptop ? At least the gen 3 Thinkpads with Ryzen seem pretty good, although configs and availability are hit or miss.
- lhl 4y ago
  Most modern ThinkPads only have soldered RAM/max out at 32GB so were basically a no-go for me. They also had 2mo+ delivery lead times for BTO options, which also put it out of the running. I wasn't super happy w/ my last Thinkpad (X250) and general sentiment seems to be that they've continued to go downhill, so unless they release something that hits it out of the park from a design perspective then I'm not so interested. (The Z13 is actually pretty neat now that it's available and discounted, but only 2 USB-C ports doesn't work for me.) Dell QC has been pretty terrible the past decade, and they're inferior in basically every way (Intel-only, mediocre cooling solutions, meh battery size, expensive, long-standing (like multi-year, basically entire product life cycle) unresolved bugs/incompatibilities even for their dev edition versions, soldered RAM, awful support, etc). One other thing is that if you are a Linux user, I really don't see much point in rolling the dice/fighting obscure compatibility bugs (most of them being BIOS/ACPI bugs that are hard to impossible for mere mortal end-users to fix) when there are similar (or better) alternatives that are known to work OOTB, or better yet, explicitly support Linux.
  - wraptile 4y ago
    Do people really need more than 32GB of RAM? I'm struggling to come up with a scenario that needs so much RAM.

brendanmc6 4y ago

I'm almost ready to sell my DIY Windows framework and go back to mac. It won't go to sleep-- fans always spin unless I shut down completely. Forums aren't any help. Anyone have this issue? Other commenters have similar complaints here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31433556 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31433556 I really wanted to support this company because I believe in repairability! But repairability is meaningless the software doesn't work... I'm not a 16 year old enthusiast anymore, I don't have the time or patience to troubleshoot drivers, firmware, devices etc. etc. :(

siva7 4y ago
Then a macbook is the right choice if you just want a device that works and got no time for tinkering around.
- arghwhat 4y ago
  The "just works" thing is unfortunately a thing of the past.
  - movedx 4y ago
    It's really... not. I've used MBPs for years (three generations of them) and they've literally (like, literally literally) Just Worked. But I'm sure you'll find stats and horror stories that say otherwise, as if, somehow, Apple (or anyone) is capable of producing hardware and software that's impossible to break, never fails, and lasts forever.
    - radicalbyte 4y ago
      I've been using Apple for a decade now and my experiences with the Apple Silicon machines reminded me of the Windows 95 -> Windows 2000 transition only with no way of actually getting things to work. It does a lot of things right - especially sleep - however I'm constantly running into problems with buggy software which is unfixable because Apple don't do compatibility. Also not having a battery which can be replaced or storage which can be user-upgraded is absolute garbage in 2022. EDIT: if I was still a gamer I'd be laughing the MacBook out of the room.

markeibes 4y ago

If only they cared minimally about æsthetics.

kdtsh 4y ago

I held off replacing my 2015 MBP for a long time, but a couple months ago I blew out one of the speakers and the quality of all replacement speakers I could find for sale online looked very suspect. I got my new MBA M2 just the other day, I think if this announcement had happened last month I would have seriously considered it but clearly it was not to be. Maybe next time, I’d love to get my hands on a Framework and give it the Ship of Theseus treatment. The MBA M2 is great by the way, I love Linux on the desktop but it’s been a while since I had working touchpad gestures and sleep/hibernate that didn’t just die sometimes. No moving parts, all-day battery life, and having my computer in Find My is nice too. I know though once the storage starts going it’ll be an expensive replacement or a new computer altogether. (Also, the Framework is available for pre-order - the turnaround on my new laptop was about 3 weeks but I have no idea how long I’d wait for a Framework, is it still being released in limited batches?)

commandersaki 4y ago
Did you find a replacement speaker for the 2015 MBP? I have a 2015 MBP 13" that needs a replacement speaker, and I've seen a lot of parts online, but not sure if they'll be the same quality as the originals.

cmroanirgo 4y ago

Compare the 'Performance' model (i7-1260P, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD) $2269AUD with a similar StarBook with Linux and choice of firmware (Am' Megatrends vs Coreboot) at $1831AUD, and the StarBook has plenty of ports too. The 400nit display is also very enticing to me. https://au.starlabs.systems/products/starbook?variant=42931360596222 https://au.starlabs.systems/products/starbook?variant=429313... Every day I consider getting one... or an M2. But the deal breaker for an M1/M2 is the soldered SSD. edited: typo in price

zsims 4y ago
> $18321AUD Is that a typo? Or are they actually that exxy?

ex3ndr 4y ago

Super anything that this notebook is not really linux-friendly, from time to time something didn't work. For example, latest Qubes OS won't work with wifi making Qubes almost useless. You also can't replace it with another WiFi module since there are no list that could be compatible with framework.

guerby 4y ago

Just upgraded my frame.work motherboard+CPU from gen11 to gen12 following: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Mainboard+Replacement+Guide/79 https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Mainboard+Replacement+Guide/... The only annoyance is the battery connector where you need to be extra careful not to bend a pin (I wonder why they couldn't do like other connectors with more plastic guide length to avoid angled insertion). - 64GB RAM is really nice on a laptop - also nice to be able to add "internal"-like storage with their 1TB NVME extension card. Note: I run debian 11 on it with GNOME, fingerprint reader supported by installing two tiny debian testing packages.

samatman 4y ago
How are the thermals?
- guerby 4y ago
  /sys/class/power_supply/BAT1/ reports 4.4 Watt at idle with GNOME desktop, a terminal, and min screen brightness. thermald and powertop suggested tunables.

sireat 4y ago

Please, please, bring Framework availability to the rest of EU! Sure, VAT's are different but it is supposed to be a common market after all...