6 ms·

I live by lake union in Seattle, and I love watching the seaplanes taking off and landing. It's high time that there's a lead-free option. Seattle doesn't need

I live by lake union in Seattle, and I love watching the seaplanes taking off and landing. It's high time that there's a lead-free option. Seattle doesn't need that kind of lead in its air.

walrus01 4y ago
The rotary engine tech in a DHC beaver is barely changed from WW2 era rotary piston engines... Assuming we're not talking about the more modern turbine beavers and otters. The turbine ones already run on Jet-A
- s800 4y ago
  Rotary or radial?
  - repiret 4y ago
    Radial.
    - walrus01 4y ago
      My brain was clearly not working right when I wrote that, though the mental image of a Mazda RX-7 engine strapped to the front of a beaver is certainly amusing.
      - dreamcompiler 4y ago
        Wonder if anybody ever tried that. Somebody must have, decided the gallons per hour was ridiculously high, and abandoned the idea.
        mechanical_bear 4y ago
        In a similar way, there are kit planes which use EJ and EA series Subaru engines. These tend to be a bit more fuel efficient than Mazda rotaries though.
        buster3000 4y ago
        They're used in drones https://www.aieuk.com/wankel-rotary-uav-engines/ https://www.aieuk.com/wankel-rotary-uav-engines/
        hindsightbias 4y ago
        There have been many attempts with the 13B. One I saw it all worked, except the exhaust system. Builder went through everything, built 3 or 4 of them. The last was made out of titanium welded by guys who worked for a defense contractor. Failed in flight like the rest of them. He ended up with a lycoming.
      - alricb 4y ago
        In the early days of aviation there were actually rotary engines that were like radials, but where the entire engine rotated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_engine
- repiret 4y ago
  Given that the DHC-2 Beaver was introduced in 1948, that’s not too surprising.
- exmadscientist 4y ago
  And I think that Kenmore Air is the main operator out of Lake Union, and they're mostly or all turbine.
itslennysfault 4y ago
I used to live near there too. I was today years old when I learned those planes still use leaded fuel. Oof. Glad that's getting rectified.... finally.
- cibyr 4y ago
  The piston engines still use "low lead" fuel. The turboprops run on jet fuel.
  - outworlder 4y ago
    Some piston engines use jet fuel too (Diamond planes in particular). Some use automotive gas.
    - dreamcompiler 4y ago
      Piston engines that run on jet fuel are diesels. Nothing wrong with that and diesels are very efficient. But diesel GA engines have a long history of problems. Diamond is rare in seeming to have overcome those problems.
verst 4y ago
As someone who flies GA aircraft out of Boeing field (KBFI) I also welcome this change. I don't want more leaded fuel on my hands. The lead can be absorbed by skin.
- scoot 4y ago
  - Justin_K 4y ago
    Are you asking them to list off every concern so you are satisfied their list meets your standards?
    - scoot 4y ago
      - djohnston 4y ago
        Are you alluding that he has blood on his hands because he flies GA?
        btilly 4y ago
        Figures from https://journalistsresource.org/environment/plane-lead-fuel-emissions-economic-impact/ https://journalistsresource.org/environment/plane-lead-fuel-... In 2008 there were 167,000 small planes. The discounted present cost of future lost productivity due to the lead in their gas in any given year is $1.63 billion. That's about $9760 of lost productivity per year you choose to fly that plane. Some models put the cost of lost productivity due to lowered IQ much higher, for about $11.3 billion. That's about $67,700 per plane per year of damage caused to others (mostly poor and often minorities). Do you think this qualifies as "blood on his hands"? People will differ in their opinions on that. Certainly if he was breaking into poor people's houses and trashing them, everyone will condemn him. But he clearly had no intention to do harm, and probably had no idea of the full extent of the harm that he has been doing. There is also room for people to argue with the assumptions in the scientific model. But the range of defensible opinions ABSOLUTELY includes his having the blood of poor people on his hands.
btmiller 4y ago
I spoke with a coordinator at Kenmore Air about a private charter a few months back. Over 90% of their flights are on their higher capacity DHC-3 de Havilland Otters so that they can fill seats more efficiently. The Beaver runs on leaded gas, but the Otters do not.
- inamberclad 4y ago
  The otters are all turbine now, which runs essentially pure kerosene.
sergiomattei 4y ago
Lived there for a while as well. Didn’t think about that…
Tagbert 4y ago
I live near the south end of Lake Washington near Renton Airport and always cringe when those small piston engined planes take off over the lake and homes. I would be afraid of growing a garden in the homes around the airport. I see people fishing in the lake next to signs warning about the risk of eating too much fish from the lake. It is high time we got rid of this last remnant of leaded gas.
- therealdrag0 4y ago
  I haven’t looked but wonder if there is a measurement available and how bad it is comparatively.

I live by lake union in Seattle, and I love watching the seaplanes taking off and landing. It's high time that there's a lead-free option. Seattle doesn't need that kind of lead in its air.

walrus01 4y ago

The rotary engine tech in a DHC beaver is barely changed from WW2 era rotary piston engines... Assuming we're not talking about the more modern turbine beavers and otters. The turbine ones already run on Jet-A

s800 4y ago
Rotary or radial?
- repiret 4y ago
  Radial.
  - walrus01 4y ago
    My brain was clearly not working right when I wrote that, though the mental image of a Mazda RX-7 engine strapped to the front of a beaver is certainly amusing.
    - dreamcompiler 4y ago
      Wonder if anybody ever tried that. Somebody must have, decided the gallons per hour was ridiculously high, and abandoned the idea.
      - mechanical_bear 4y ago
        In a similar way, there are kit planes which use EJ and EA series Subaru engines. These tend to be a bit more fuel efficient than Mazda rotaries though.
      - buster3000 4y ago
        They're used in drones https://www.aieuk.com/wankel-rotary-uav-engines/ https://www.aieuk.com/wankel-rotary-uav-engines/
      - hindsightbias 4y ago
        There have been many attempts with the 13B. One I saw it all worked, except the exhaust system. Builder went through everything, built 3 or 4 of them. The last was made out of titanium welded by guys who worked for a defense contractor. Failed in flight like the rest of them. He ended up with a lycoming.
    - alricb 4y ago
      In the early days of aviation there were actually rotary engines that were like radials, but where the entire engine rotated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_engine
repiret 4y ago
Given that the DHC-2 Beaver was introduced in 1948, that’s not too surprising.
exmadscientist 4y ago
And I think that Kenmore Air is the main operator out of Lake Union, and they're mostly or all turbine.

itslennysfault 4y ago

I used to live near there too. I was today years old when I learned those planes still use leaded fuel. Oof. Glad that's getting rectified.... finally.

cibyr 4y ago
The piston engines still use "low lead" fuel. The turboprops run on jet fuel.
- outworlder 4y ago
  Some piston engines use jet fuel too (Diamond planes in particular). Some use automotive gas.
  - dreamcompiler 4y ago
    Piston engines that run on jet fuel are diesels. Nothing wrong with that and diesels are very efficient. But diesel GA engines have a long history of problems. Diamond is rare in seeming to have overcome those problems.

verst 4y ago

As someone who flies GA aircraft out of Boeing field (KBFI) I also welcome this change. I don't want more leaded fuel on my hands. The lead can be absorbed by skin.

scoot 4y ago
- Justin_K 4y ago
  Are you asking them to list off every concern so you are satisfied their list meets your standards?
  - scoot 4y ago
    - djohnston 4y ago
      Are you alluding that he has blood on his hands because he flies GA?
      - btilly 4y ago
        Figures from https://journalistsresource.org/environment/plane-lead-fuel-emissions-economic-impact/ https://journalistsresource.org/environment/plane-lead-fuel-... In 2008 there were 167,000 small planes. The discounted present cost of future lost productivity due to the lead in their gas in any given year is $1.63 billion. That's about $9760 of lost productivity per year you choose to fly that plane. Some models put the cost of lost productivity due to lowered IQ much higher, for about $11.3 billion. That's about $67,700 per plane per year of damage caused to others (mostly poor and often minorities). Do you think this qualifies as "blood on his hands"? People will differ in their opinions on that. Certainly if he was breaking into poor people's houses and trashing them, everyone will condemn him. But he clearly had no intention to do harm, and probably had no idea of the full extent of the harm that he has been doing. There is also room for people to argue with the assumptions in the scientific model. But the range of defensible opinions ABSOLUTELY includes his having the blood of poor people on his hands.

btmiller 4y ago

I spoke with a coordinator at Kenmore Air about a private charter a few months back. Over 90% of their flights are on their higher capacity DHC-3 de Havilland Otters so that they can fill seats more efficiently. The Beaver runs on leaded gas, but the Otters do not.

inamberclad 4y ago
The otters are all turbine now, which runs essentially pure kerosene.

sergiomattei 4y ago

Lived there for a while as well. Didn’t think about that…

Tagbert 4y ago

I live near the south end of Lake Washington near Renton Airport and always cringe when those small piston engined planes take off over the lake and homes. I would be afraid of growing a garden in the homes around the airport. I see people fishing in the lake next to signs warning about the risk of eating too much fish from the lake. It is high time we got rid of this last remnant of leaded gas.

therealdrag0 4y ago
I haven’t looked but wonder if there is a measurement available and how bad it is comparatively.