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> Only very recently have very wealthy western nations overcome food insecurity for most people, ... Yes, and it should be mentioned that they have managed to

by ephbit 4y ago

> Only very recently have very wealthy western nations overcome food insecurity for most people, ... Yes, and it should be mentioned that they have managed to do so _only_ with the help of basically feeding unimaginable amounts of energy contained in fossil fuels directly to the plants in the form of nitrogen (fixed in the form of Ammonium). > Given that a very large percentage of the world population lives near the ocean, what makes you think relocating hundreds of millions if not billions of people and their jobs and communities is not a hard problem? IMO it really isn't that much of a problem. Sea levels will not rise suddenly but gradually. That will put (slowly) increasing economic pressure on coastal areas, which will gradually drive people from there by giving them incentive to move somewhere else. If there were a flood instead, relocating all the people living on the coast sure would be a huge problem. But the way things are, it will IMO just be one of the minor problems humanity will face.

cyphar 4y ago
> Yes, and [artificial ammonia production] should be mentioned I did mention it, that's what the Haber process produces (and the discovery of the Haber process is what allowed us to produce ammonia on an industrial scale rather than relying on natural guano deposits). > That will put (slowly) increasing economic pressure on coastal areas, which will gradually drive people from there by giving them incentive to move somewhere else. Who will they sell their homes to?
- ephbit 4y ago
  > Who will they sell their homes to? As with many such large scale problems, the state will probably take care of that by bearing these costs and distributing them among the citizens. It's not a good way, but it should work.
- ephbit 4y ago
  > I did mention it, that's what the Haber process produce .. Yes, and I did read it. I was trying to put emphasis on the huge cost in the form of near endless energy. Just mentioning the process as if it somehow miraculously solved the problems for all time is misleading, since the world is now facing the challenge to basically stop using this method. Because it wasn't sustainable. It only worked because it relied on stored energy, which is A, going to be used up some time and B, should be left in the ground because CO2 emissions must be reduced/stopped.

by ephbit 4y ago

cyphar 4y ago

> Yes, and [artificial ammonia production] should be mentioned I did mention it, that's what the Haber process produces (and the discovery of the Haber process is what allowed us to produce ammonia on an industrial scale rather than relying on natural guano deposits). > That will put (slowly) increasing economic pressure on coastal areas, which will gradually drive people from there by giving them incentive to move somewhere else. Who will they sell their homes to?

ephbit 4y ago
> Who will they sell their homes to? As with many such large scale problems, the state will probably take care of that by bearing these costs and distributing them among the citizens. It's not a good way, but it should work.
ephbit 4y ago
> I did mention it, that's what the Haber process produce .. Yes, and I did read it. I was trying to put emphasis on the huge cost in the form of near endless energy. Just mentioning the process as if it somehow miraculously solved the problems for all time is misleading, since the world is now facing the challenge to basically stop using this method. Because it wasn't sustainable. It only worked because it relied on stored energy, which is A, going to be used up some time and B, should be left in the ground because CO2 emissions must be reduced/stopped.