4 ms·

This is why the US sensibly protects opinion (this company committed fraud) based on disclosed facts (they charged me for siding I did not order), and flips the

This is why the US sensibly protects opinion (this company committed fraud) based on disclosed facts (they charged me for siding I did not order), and flips the burden that the plaintiff has to prove the defendant knew the purported facts were untrue. Which I mean, Ginther still obviously believes he did not order siding that he was charged for.

duxup 4y ago
>Ginther still obviously believes Well he claimed it, not sure if he is lying and maybe knows it.
- brigade 4y ago
  Why would you jump to “he’s lying” and not “he’s mistaken”?
  - duxup 4y ago
    I'm saying what he says is not necessarily what he knows. As for the rest the judge already decided he wasn't credible as far as the judge was concerned.
    - brigade 4y ago
      …how exactly is that different from lying in your mind? “Not credible” as far as proving that the plaintiffs acted fraudulently, which is a far cry from the plaintiffs proving that his allegations were false.
      - duxup 4y ago
        “Not credible” applies to his testimony.
  - fgonzag 4y ago
    What do you mean? He would obviously know if he placed the order, and if he was charged for it. Either he's lying or his not, but he can't be mistaken.
    - brigade 4y ago
      Like thinking he ordered X amount but it was actually Y amount, or placing an order and it taking so long you forgot about it so you place it again, or ordering the wrong product code and failing to verify it, or skimming over the order and missing that the salesman added extras for whatever reason and signing it anyway, or… If he didn’t remember placing the order, or believed that the order was modified, then at worst he’s mistaken, not lying.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      You seem to be implicitly ruling out mental illness. It's absolutely possible that he earnestly believes this without it being true.
    - Glawen 4y ago
      The article says it was over the phone. Last month I went to a shop to order a specific size shower which would be delivered next day. The employee took my order, I paid and left. While driving home I got an email with my order, but I didn't check it. The next day I come to get my delivery and realise it is not the correct size, I check my email and indeed the size is not correct. The shop made no issue and ordered a new one but I lost 4 days. So who knows?
    - namelessoracle 4y ago
      Thats not correct. When placing these orders a sales person will put a sku code or a in house reference number on the quote document that doesnt actually mean anything to a normal person and agree to do work that the implementation team cant or wont do (this should sound familiar to people here). Ive seen this done personally. They also dont charge all up front and might just want a deposit. So they might not realize the cost is higher. Its very easy for a immoral salesperson to try and get a customer to unwilling pay for something. And they have incentives to do so.
  - RobRivera 4y ago
    why not and why is this important?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

duxup 4y ago

>Ginther still obviously believes Well he claimed it, not sure if he is lying and maybe knows it.

brigade 4y ago
Why would you jump to “he’s lying” and not “he’s mistaken”?
- duxup 4y ago
  I'm saying what he says is not necessarily what he knows. As for the rest the judge already decided he wasn't credible as far as the judge was concerned.
  - brigade 4y ago
    …how exactly is that different from lying in your mind? “Not credible” as far as proving that the plaintiffs acted fraudulently, which is a far cry from the plaintiffs proving that his allegations were false.
    - duxup 4y ago
      “Not credible” applies to his testimony.
- fgonzag 4y ago
  What do you mean? He would obviously know if he placed the order, and if he was charged for it. Either he's lying or his not, but he can't be mistaken.
  - brigade 4y ago
    Like thinking he ordered X amount but it was actually Y amount, or placing an order and it taking so long you forgot about it so you place it again, or ordering the wrong product code and failing to verify it, or skimming over the order and missing that the salesman added extras for whatever reason and signing it anyway, or… If he didn’t remember placing the order, or believed that the order was modified, then at worst he’s mistaken, not lying.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    You seem to be implicitly ruling out mental illness. It's absolutely possible that he earnestly believes this without it being true.
  - Glawen 4y ago
    The article says it was over the phone. Last month I went to a shop to order a specific size shower which would be delivered next day. The employee took my order, I paid and left. While driving home I got an email with my order, but I didn't check it. The next day I come to get my delivery and realise it is not the correct size, I check my email and indeed the size is not correct. The shop made no issue and ordered a new one but I lost 4 days. So who knows?
  - namelessoracle 4y ago
    Thats not correct. When placing these orders a sales person will put a sku code or a in house reference number on the quote document that doesnt actually mean anything to a normal person and agree to do work that the implementation team cant or wont do (this should sound familiar to people here). Ive seen this done personally. They also dont charge all up front and might just want a deposit. So they might not realize the cost is higher. Its very easy for a immoral salesperson to try and get a customer to unwilling pay for something. And they have incentives to do so.
- RobRivera 4y ago
  why not and why is this important?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]