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Helion fusion to talk at Plasma Physics APS conference

21 points by joak 4y ago

3327 4y ago
joak 4y ago
They seem to be willing to lift the veil a bit... The abstract is a bit of a spoiler.. Author: David Kirtley Helion’s Trenta prototype compressed Field Reversed Configuration (FRC) plasmas to thermonuclear fusion conditions, reaching 9 keV plasma temperatures [1]. FRC plasmas are fundamentally high-beta and if heated through pulsed, adiabatic compression, they operate in a unique collisionality regime that supports both thermonuclear fusion conditions as well as maintains an ion to electron temperature ratio. In the presented work, a theoretical analysis of FRC compression to generator-relevant fusion conditions is derived from fundamental scaling laws. This work includes independent ion and electron heating [2], radiation losses [3], empirical particle transport scaling [4], fusion reaction rates, ion temperature distribution evolution, and D, T, and He-3 fuels. As will be shown, for all operating conditions above 20 keV, a high-beta D-He-3 FRC outperforms a low-Beta D-T plasma in terms of electrical and fusion power output.
- B1FF_PSUVM 4y ago
  Not to be too crude, but somewhere in the business plan there must be a USD$/W figure for a power plant ... (e.g. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-cost-of-a-100-megawatt-solar-power-plant https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-cost-of-a-100-megawatt-sol... )
- twarge 4y ago
  This is a scaling claim, and I don't know, but it feels super weak. Of course a high beta plasma beats a low beta plasma. The problem with high beta is is instabilities, and you know, actually getting high beta.
  - joak 4y ago
    Since it's pulsed the instabilities do not have time to arise and matter. As I understand they are going to explain how they get to high beta.
    - twarge 4y ago
      That doesn’t sound like much time spent fusing.
bmitc 4y ago
Why is it "Sam Altman's" Helion Energy? He has nothing to do with it other than later stage funding. And the company name is Helion Energy and not "Helion fusion". Edit: Title has been partially edited after, not necessarily because of, my comment.
- joak 4y ago
  Later stage, early stage, a good of chunk all his wealth invested in it and posts in hn to advertize it.
  - bmitc 4y ago
    Still not his. From what I can tell, he only invested in 2021, several years after the founding of the company and several other investors, including the U.S. government. And again from what I can tell, the 2021 investment far exceeds his estimated net worth, so is it even his money or an investment pool? And he has nothing to do with this conference or the tech. I'm just not a fan of cult of personality, something venture capitalism is rife with. It's always interesting how people, such as recruiters, try to sell the investors as if that has anything intrinsic to do with the company and its people. Also, the company name is still wrong in the title.
    - joak 4y ago
      My mistake: I mentioned Sam Altman so people could remember the company: «oh yes the one Sam Altman invested in». «Sam Altman backed» would have been better than «Sam Altman's» but it didn't fit in the allotted number of characters. I'll be glad to change in the title «Helion fusion» to «Helion Energy fusion company» but title cannot be changed anymore.
      - bmitc 4y ago
        Ah, I didn't even realize you were the submitter. I just used the title as a prompt for commentary on what I discussed. I'll admit that it seems nitpicky, but it's a subtle thing that I think ends up getting repeated everywhere in society. I have even experienced it in companies, where an internal organization would be referred to as "<so and so's> org", and so I would never know what organization they were talking about since it wasn't named, who <so and so> even was because only first name's would be used, and I was left confused as to why an organization made up of hundreds of people was named in the possessive of a single person. Anyway, as an on-topic discussion, Daniel Jassby, formerly of the Princeton plasma physics group, seems pretty unconvinced by Helion's approach in his article Voodoo Fusion Energy. https://engage.aps.org/fps/resources/newsletters/newsletter-archives/april-2019 https://engage.aps.org/fps/resources/newsletters/newsletter-... From what I can tell, any non-tokamak design is basically a research project, whether it is a startup or not. Commonwealth Fusion Systems probably has the most chance in getting to commercial fusion, as it's based on the relatively well-known tokamak design, but it's still a long road ahead.

21 points by joak 4y ago

3327 4y ago

joak 4y ago

They seem to be willing to lift the veil a bit... The abstract is a bit of a spoiler.. Author: David Kirtley Helion’s Trenta prototype compressed Field Reversed Configuration (FRC) plasmas to thermonuclear fusion conditions, reaching 9 keV plasma temperatures [1]. FRC plasmas are fundamentally high-beta and if heated through pulsed, adiabatic compression, they operate in a unique collisionality regime that supports both thermonuclear fusion conditions as well as maintains an ion to electron temperature ratio. In the presented work, a theoretical analysis of FRC compression to generator-relevant fusion conditions is derived from fundamental scaling laws. This work includes independent ion and electron heating [2], radiation losses [3], empirical particle transport scaling [4], fusion reaction rates, ion temperature distribution evolution, and D, T, and He-3 fuels. As will be shown, for all operating conditions above 20 keV, a high-beta D-He-3 FRC outperforms a low-Beta D-T plasma in terms of electrical and fusion power output.

B1FF_PSUVM 4y ago
Not to be too crude, but somewhere in the business plan there must be a USD$/W figure for a power plant ... (e.g. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-cost-of-a-100-megawatt-solar-power-plant https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-cost-of-a-100-megawatt-sol... )
twarge 4y ago
This is a scaling claim, and I don't know, but it feels super weak. Of course a high beta plasma beats a low beta plasma. The problem with high beta is is instabilities, and you know, actually getting high beta.
- joak 4y ago
  Since it's pulsed the instabilities do not have time to arise and matter. As I understand they are going to explain how they get to high beta.
  - twarge 4y ago
    That doesn’t sound like much time spent fusing.

bmitc 4y ago

Why is it "Sam Altman's" Helion Energy? He has nothing to do with it other than later stage funding. And the company name is Helion Energy and not "Helion fusion". Edit: Title has been partially edited after, not necessarily because of, my comment.

joak 4y ago
Later stage, early stage, a good of chunk all his wealth invested in it and posts in hn to advertize it.
- bmitc 4y ago
  Still not his. From what I can tell, he only invested in 2021, several years after the founding of the company and several other investors, including the U.S. government. And again from what I can tell, the 2021 investment far exceeds his estimated net worth, so is it even his money or an investment pool? And he has nothing to do with this conference or the tech. I'm just not a fan of cult of personality, something venture capitalism is rife with. It's always interesting how people, such as recruiters, try to sell the investors as if that has anything intrinsic to do with the company and its people. Also, the company name is still wrong in the title.
  - joak 4y ago
    My mistake: I mentioned Sam Altman so people could remember the company: «oh yes the one Sam Altman invested in». «Sam Altman backed» would have been better than «Sam Altman's» but it didn't fit in the allotted number of characters. I'll be glad to change in the title «Helion fusion» to «Helion Energy fusion company» but title cannot be changed anymore.
    - bmitc 4y ago
      Ah, I didn't even realize you were the submitter. I just used the title as a prompt for commentary on what I discussed. I'll admit that it seems nitpicky, but it's a subtle thing that I think ends up getting repeated everywhere in society. I have even experienced it in companies, where an internal organization would be referred to as "<so and so's> org", and so I would never know what organization they were talking about since it wasn't named, who <so and so> even was because only first name's would be used, and I was left confused as to why an organization made up of hundreds of people was named in the possessive of a single person. Anyway, as an on-topic discussion, Daniel Jassby, formerly of the Princeton plasma physics group, seems pretty unconvinced by Helion's approach in his article Voodoo Fusion Energy. https://engage.aps.org/fps/resources/newsletters/newsletter-archives/april-2019 https://engage.aps.org/fps/resources/newsletters/newsletter-... From what I can tell, any non-tokamak design is basically a research project, whether it is a startup or not. Commonwealth Fusion Systems probably has the most chance in getting to commercial fusion, as it's based on the relatively well-known tokamak design, but it's still a long road ahead.