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Why engage in a back-and-forth with these people? Configure the car you want on the manufacturer website, note the list price, then send the configuration you w

Why engage in a back-and-forth with these people? Configure the car you want on the manufacturer website, note the list price, then send the configuration you want to a few dealers in your area and ask them to quote for delivering you that car. Accept the best quote. If they want to debate you about it, ask them to either quote you or forget it. There are even apps which enforce this - they get to quote you but can't communicate otherwise.

awad 4y ago
Interesting - do you have the names of any of those apps?
- qzw 4y ago
  TrueCar used to be a pretty good one, and was the service behind Sam’s Club and USAA’s auto buying programs. But it’s pretty much no longer worth the bother now. Don’t know of anything newer that’s better. Keep in mind that no app can work miracles in a crazy market. They all ultimately depend on dealers competing with each other to deliver any value, but dealers just haven’t needed to compete in the last couple of years.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  In the UK there is Carwow. You may not like the prices you get these days, but it's a market, and at least it's a take-it-or-leave-it price.
qzw 4y ago
That’s how it used to work (and still does for some less in demand/in short supply models), but if you’re after something that’s even moderately popular (most SUVs and EVs), you’ll hardly see any replies nowadays. That was the case when trying to get my wife a new crossover recently. We ended up placing an order in person with a dealer that “only” charged MSRP without a bunch of crazy add-ons, albeit with an additional dealer fee (pure profit) of $800. But when the car showed up 3 months later it was missing power seats due to a supply shortage. We walked from the deal and are now shopping again. Fun times.
fhrow4484 4y ago
Just like mortgage brokers are obligated to send you an official, standardized "loan estimate" when you ask about a mortgage, dealership should have something similar with cars. Specifically: the car is only the first part, then there's extra warranties from dealership, financing, etc. A standardized quote that gives you the price of these optional items would go a long way in making the experience smooth. Private companies can solve the issues themselves (Carvana), but that's coming at a significant $ premium so far. The FTC rule mentioned in the article mentions this: > Require full upfront disclosure of costs and conditions: The proposal would require dealers to make key disclosures to consumers, including providing a true “offering price” for a vehicle that would be full price a consumer would pay, excluding only taxes and government fees. It would also require dealers to make disclosures about optional add-on fees, including their price and the fact that they are not required as a condition of purchasing or leasing the vehicle, along with disclosures to consumers with key information about financing terms.
- LatteLazy 4y ago
  In the UK, you have 28 days to change your mind and arrange your own financing. So for informed buyers, a common tactic is to agree to whatever shitty high interest loan they're selling to keep the sticker price down, then just call the loan company and cancel and pay it off with cash from the loan/savings you actually want to use.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    The same can be done in the US -- just pay it off before it accrues any interest.
    - MerelyMortal 4y ago
      Just make sure there's no prepayment fees.
- sidewndr46 4y ago
  If we're talking about the US, why layer on even more regulation to an already unnecessary industry? Just eliminate the dealership model & allow people to order directly from the manufacturer.
criddell 4y ago
I did this in 2017 and none of the dealers I contacted would play ball. Every one of them told me I would need to come in. When I went in, they couldn't tell me the final price until they knew if I would buy a service contract, if I would be financing through them and if so, what my credit score was, etc... I ended up leaving with the car I wanted and paid about $500 more than I wanted to but they wore me down. I think if you buy through Costco you can avoid some of the bullshit, but you do pay more than you probably have to. It might be worth it though just to have an easier experience.
- crazygringo 4y ago
  Seriously. If they have a glut of the model they can't sell enough of then they'll probably play along -- but otherwise they know you know what you're doing and they'll make very little money on you, and they'd prefer to make more money with somebody else. They're maximizing profit, not number of cars sold, and for many cars it's supply that is the limiting factor, not demand.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - techsupporter 4y ago
    > but otherwise they know you know what you're doing and they'll make very little money on you This has the air of "That One Weird Trick" that used to work in the early 2010s before everyone had heard of it. But now that it's the lead paragraph in every single "how to buy the exact car you want, for so much less money" blogspam, of course it no longer works. I'm not sure why people expected it to continue when the entire business model of car dealerships is to turn suckers into money. "Having to interact with a dealership" is around number 4 or 5 on my list of why I will never buy a car again, after years of not having one.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      I don't mind a market price - that's actually what I'm seeking they can quote me as much as they think they'll get from the people who haggle - I just want to avoid the haggle.
pwinnski 4y ago
That's a great approach, and when there's a glut of cars sitting on dealer lots, you might even get responses. Right now, when most cars are selling for more than sticker, you won't. If you don't buy a car, that's fine, there are others who will.
- aliqot 4y ago
  This has a finite window of viability.
  - qzw 4y ago
    Of course, and I really look forward to the eventual auto dealer winter, but if you actually need a car right now it’s a serious pain in the ass.
    - aliqot 4y ago
      I empathize, I hope it works out for you.
      - qzw 4y ago
        I appreciate it, but it’s actually not bad for me personally. My wife wants a new car rather than need one. We can afford to wait but can also afford to buy now, and I wanted her to be happy. But I know many others are definitely not so fortunate.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  You’ll get responses, just with quote that’s higher - and that fine it’s a market.
- andrewmcwatters 4y ago
  People said this at the height of the used car shortage. It still wasn't true. In my experience, suckers were buying Corollas at 25%+(!) over MSRP. All I had to do was go to another dealership. Let me put it this way: you've got the entire continental US you can buy a car from and shipping a vehicle coast-to-coast usually costs under $2,000. So, what do you think is truer? Is the market excruciatingly tight, or are there just a lot of people making bad purchases out there?
tehwebguy 4y ago
Make sure to triple check the paperwork at the end, someone went viral yesterday for accidentally paying $6k over what they believed they were for their Toyota Corolla.
- pc86 4y ago
  You really have to try not to read what you're signing for something like that to happen. My fiance bought a car less than a year ago and the final loan price was everywhere, even highlighted. I've bought cars in two other states and it was never exactly hidden.
analyst74 4y ago
I also had the experience where I placed an order on ford website, routed it to a dealer who agreed to honor the online price. 5 months later, when the car was delivered onto the dealer lot, they wanted 10k more.
- kube-system 4y ago
  Did you have it in writing? I would have politely reminded them that my state's consumer protection laws require them to honor it.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Be sure to report that to Ford; they're not happy with that happening.
  - qzw 4y ago
    Until they put some teeth into their “unhappiness”, forgive me for taking it as merely low effort PR noise. For $10k per car (or 30-50k on some models like the F-150 Lightning), a dealer would be willing to incur all kinds of unhappiness. But if those allocations actually start getting cut off, they’ll fall in line real fast. But Ford wouldn’t do that because the average dealer is far more important to them than the average customer.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Just copy your local media station, nightly news loves running muck-raking things about stealerships.
      - qzw 4y ago
        Dealerships run a lot of ads during my nightly local news, just saying. And if all the dealers are doing the same thing, it then becomes a non-story.
pkrotich 4y ago
I did exactly what you mentioned - many didn’t play ball but one made an appointment with confirmed inventory. Drove 2 hours only to be told car I wanted “just” sold and by the way we add $10k to MSRP - classic bait and switch.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Get them to order the car you want - don't worry about their inventory.
kej 4y ago
Even better, if you're a AAA member they will do the quote hunting for you. The last two times we bought cars, we test drove a few models, found the one we liked, and then relayed our preferences to the AAA guy. Picked up the car from his office with no dealership drama.

awad 4y ago

Interesting - do you have the names of any of those apps?

qzw 4y ago
TrueCar used to be a pretty good one, and was the service behind Sam’s Club and USAA’s auto buying programs. But it’s pretty much no longer worth the bother now. Don’t know of anything newer that’s better. Keep in mind that no app can work miracles in a crazy market. They all ultimately depend on dealers competing with each other to deliver any value, but dealers just haven’t needed to compete in the last couple of years.
chrisseaton 4y ago
In the UK there is Carwow. You may not like the prices you get these days, but it's a market, and at least it's a take-it-or-leave-it price.

qzw 4y ago

That’s how it used to work (and still does for some less in demand/in short supply models), but if you’re after something that’s even moderately popular (most SUVs and EVs), you’ll hardly see any replies nowadays. That was the case when trying to get my wife a new crossover recently. We ended up placing an order in person with a dealer that “only” charged MSRP without a bunch of crazy add-ons, albeit with an additional dealer fee (pure profit) of $800. But when the car showed up 3 months later it was missing power seats due to a supply shortage. We walked from the deal and are now shopping again. Fun times.

fhrow4484 4y ago

Just like mortgage brokers are obligated to send you an official, standardized "loan estimate" when you ask about a mortgage, dealership should have something similar with cars. Specifically: the car is only the first part, then there's extra warranties from dealership, financing, etc. A standardized quote that gives you the price of these optional items would go a long way in making the experience smooth. Private companies can solve the issues themselves (Carvana), but that's coming at a significant $ premium so far. The FTC rule mentioned in the article mentions this: > Require full upfront disclosure of costs and conditions: The proposal would require dealers to make key disclosures to consumers, including providing a true “offering price” for a vehicle that would be full price a consumer would pay, excluding only taxes and government fees. It would also require dealers to make disclosures about optional add-on fees, including their price and the fact that they are not required as a condition of purchasing or leasing the vehicle, along with disclosures to consumers with key information about financing terms.

LatteLazy 4y ago
In the UK, you have 28 days to change your mind and arrange your own financing. So for informed buyers, a common tactic is to agree to whatever shitty high interest loan they're selling to keep the sticker price down, then just call the loan company and cancel and pay it off with cash from the loan/savings you actually want to use.
- kube-system 4y ago
  The same can be done in the US -- just pay it off before it accrues any interest.
  - MerelyMortal 4y ago
    Just make sure there's no prepayment fees.
sidewndr46 4y ago
If we're talking about the US, why layer on even more regulation to an already unnecessary industry? Just eliminate the dealership model & allow people to order directly from the manufacturer.

criddell 4y ago

I did this in 2017 and none of the dealers I contacted would play ball. Every one of them told me I would need to come in. When I went in, they couldn't tell me the final price until they knew if I would buy a service contract, if I would be financing through them and if so, what my credit score was, etc... I ended up leaving with the car I wanted and paid about $500 more than I wanted to but they wore me down. I think if you buy through Costco you can avoid some of the bullshit, but you do pay more than you probably have to. It might be worth it though just to have an easier experience.

crazygringo 4y ago
Seriously. If they have a glut of the model they can't sell enough of then they'll probably play along -- but otherwise they know you know what you're doing and they'll make very little money on you, and they'd prefer to make more money with somebody else. They're maximizing profit, not number of cars sold, and for many cars it's supply that is the limiting factor, not demand.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- techsupporter 4y ago
  > but otherwise they know you know what you're doing and they'll make very little money on you This has the air of "That One Weird Trick" that used to work in the early 2010s before everyone had heard of it. But now that it's the lead paragraph in every single "how to buy the exact car you want, for so much less money" blogspam, of course it no longer works. I'm not sure why people expected it to continue when the entire business model of car dealerships is to turn suckers into money. "Having to interact with a dealership" is around number 4 or 5 on my list of why I will never buy a car again, after years of not having one.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    I don't mind a market price - that's actually what I'm seeking they can quote me as much as they think they'll get from the people who haggle - I just want to avoid the haggle.

pwinnski 4y ago

That's a great approach, and when there's a glut of cars sitting on dealer lots, you might even get responses. Right now, when most cars are selling for more than sticker, you won't. If you don't buy a car, that's fine, there are others who will.

aliqot 4y ago
This has a finite window of viability.
- qzw 4y ago
  Of course, and I really look forward to the eventual auto dealer winter, but if you actually need a car right now it’s a serious pain in the ass.
  - aliqot 4y ago
    I empathize, I hope it works out for you.
    - qzw 4y ago
      I appreciate it, but it’s actually not bad for me personally. My wife wants a new car rather than need one. We can afford to wait but can also afford to buy now, and I wanted her to be happy. But I know many others are definitely not so fortunate.
chrisseaton 4y ago
You’ll get responses, just with quote that’s higher - and that fine it’s a market.
andrewmcwatters 4y ago
People said this at the height of the used car shortage. It still wasn't true. In my experience, suckers were buying Corollas at 25%+(!) over MSRP. All I had to do was go to another dealership. Let me put it this way: you've got the entire continental US you can buy a car from and shipping a vehicle coast-to-coast usually costs under $2,000. So, what do you think is truer? Is the market excruciatingly tight, or are there just a lot of people making bad purchases out there?

tehwebguy 4y ago

Make sure to triple check the paperwork at the end, someone went viral yesterday for accidentally paying $6k over what they believed they were for their Toyota Corolla.

pc86 4y ago
You really have to try not to read what you're signing for something like that to happen. My fiance bought a car less than a year ago and the final loan price was everywhere, even highlighted. I've bought cars in two other states and it was never exactly hidden.

analyst74 4y ago

I also had the experience where I placed an order on ford website, routed it to a dealer who agreed to honor the online price. 5 months later, when the car was delivered onto the dealer lot, they wanted 10k more.

kube-system 4y ago
Did you have it in writing? I would have politely reminded them that my state's consumer protection laws require them to honor it.
bombcar 4y ago
Be sure to report that to Ford; they're not happy with that happening.
- qzw 4y ago
  Until they put some teeth into their “unhappiness”, forgive me for taking it as merely low effort PR noise. For $10k per car (or 30-50k on some models like the F-150 Lightning), a dealer would be willing to incur all kinds of unhappiness. But if those allocations actually start getting cut off, they’ll fall in line real fast. But Ford wouldn’t do that because the average dealer is far more important to them than the average customer.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Just copy your local media station, nightly news loves running muck-raking things about stealerships.
    - qzw 4y ago
      Dealerships run a lot of ads during my nightly local news, just saying. And if all the dealers are doing the same thing, it then becomes a non-story.

pkrotich 4y ago

I did exactly what you mentioned - many didn’t play ball but one made an appointment with confirmed inventory. Drove 2 hours only to be told car I wanted “just” sold and by the way we add $10k to MSRP - classic bait and switch.

chrisseaton 4y ago
Get them to order the car you want - don't worry about their inventory.

kej 4y ago

Even better, if you're a AAA member they will do the quote hunting for you. The last two times we bought cars, we test drove a few models, found the one we liked, and then relayed our preferences to the AAA guy. Picked up the car from his office with no dealership drama.