5 ms·

Call me a "doomer" or whatever, but I think the inevitable demise of the US empire starts with balkanization (i.e., the states splitting into their regional fac

Call me a "doomer" or whatever, but I think the inevitable demise of the US empire starts with balkanization (i.e., the states splitting into their regional factions). Basically like a second civil war, except it will look quite different and probably won't involve actual warfare. More like a slowly escalating defiance of laws at a regional level. Without wading into the trap of specific examples, I'd say we're already seeing this play out.

sfvegandude 4y ago
I would recommend reading up on American history a bit more. The US has always been a regionalist country, with a weak federal government. As for the decline of the US empire — not sure what you mean here, but if you mean the waning of American influence abroad, that’s already happening and it’s voluntary. If you mean the decline of the country internally, such as reduction in quality of life and decline in GDP/output, this is already happening with the demise of globalization, but the US will be the least impacted, not most, owing to strong demographics, variation in climate, rich natural resources, and ability to integrate immigrants.
- jgust 4y ago
  I interpreted the OP's statement as the literal breakdown of law and order. As in "Neat law your side created, but I'm not following it." The cracks are forming in things as simple as traffic laws. Tons of egregious, selfish actions and little-to-no enforcement.
  - bmismyname 4y ago
    Don't get me started on traffic laws. People lost their minds on the roads around the time the COVID lockdowns started. I've always been anti-car, but the kind of insanity I see all the time now (people running red lights, driving on the wrong side of the road to go around traffic, driving on the shoulders on the freeway to bypass congestion) happens almost every single time I get in a car now. In particular, people here run red lights and drive on the wrong side of the road to make left turns constantly. It sounds anecdotal, but there's plenty of data to back this up: https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/early-estimate-2021-traffic-fatalities https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/early-estimate-2021-tra...
droptablemain 4y ago
I see this as a win-win for the following reasons: 1) People in California don't want people in Texas influencing their politics, and vice-versa. 2) The "Balkanization" of the U.S. will weaken the international influence of the U.S. empire, allowing developing nations and others to evade the grip of Western capitalists and neoliberalism, allowing them to pursue their own development path according to their material reality. The unipolar world that merged on the post-Soviet international stage is dead. Stick a fork in it.
- sfvegandude 4y ago
  > allowing them to pursue their own development path according to their material reality. Development path? What do you think enabled there to be a development path for these nations in the first place? The “material reality” of the every nation on earth save for like, France, the US, NZ, Argentina is not development… it’s de-industrialization. The unipolar world your celebrate the demise of was responsible for the greatest and fastest increase in the quality of life the world has ever seen… ever. You’re right though. It’s over. As is the influence of the US abroad, though not by accident, but by choice.
- thecolorblue 4y ago
  I'm not sure why this is getting downvoted. I would agree on both points, as long as the relationship stays competitive and not confrontational, both at the state to state level, and country to country. I realize that is a big "if", but as long as everyone stays cool and keeps working on their own version of utopia, it will work out.
tomcam 4y ago
Yep. This was clear to me the second “sanctuary cities” decided they would flout the Constitution.
- beej71 4y ago
  Genuine question: what part of the Constitution are they flouting?
  - bmismyname 4y ago
    Surely they don't mean the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 10th amendments, or the Comity Clause. Maybe there is another amendment that says ICE can kick in your door if they saw non-white people loitering?
    - tomcam 4y ago
      I think you think you’re dunking on me, but I would genuinely like to understand the point you’re making. It will probably negate mine and I’m perfectly fine with that.
  - tomcam 4y ago
    Some of violations of the second amendment, some with immigration law. later, before a row versus Wade was dismantled, disallowing abortions when they were federally permitted.
    - beej71 4y ago
      What second amendment violations? The other things don't sound like constitutional violations.
      - tomcam 4y ago
        Generally, banning the right to carry. It's no more constitutional than to ban the right to free speech. The first cities to be sanctuary cities violated Federal and usually state law by refusing to prosecute illegal immigrants. Illegal immigration is a federal crime, period. We have a mechanism to overturn laws we don't like. That's not it.

sfvegandude 4y ago

I would recommend reading up on American history a bit more. The US has always been a regionalist country, with a weak federal government. As for the decline of the US empire — not sure what you mean here, but if you mean the waning of American influence abroad, that’s already happening and it’s voluntary. If you mean the decline of the country internally, such as reduction in quality of life and decline in GDP/output, this is already happening with the demise of globalization, but the US will be the least impacted, not most, owing to strong demographics, variation in climate, rich natural resources, and ability to integrate immigrants.

jgust 4y ago
I interpreted the OP's statement as the literal breakdown of law and order. As in "Neat law your side created, but I'm not following it." The cracks are forming in things as simple as traffic laws. Tons of egregious, selfish actions and little-to-no enforcement.
- bmismyname 4y ago
  Don't get me started on traffic laws. People lost their minds on the roads around the time the COVID lockdowns started. I've always been anti-car, but the kind of insanity I see all the time now (people running red lights, driving on the wrong side of the road to go around traffic, driving on the shoulders on the freeway to bypass congestion) happens almost every single time I get in a car now. In particular, people here run red lights and drive on the wrong side of the road to make left turns constantly. It sounds anecdotal, but there's plenty of data to back this up: https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/early-estimate-2021-traffic-fatalities https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/early-estimate-2021-tra...

droptablemain 4y ago

I see this as a win-win for the following reasons: 1) People in California don't want people in Texas influencing their politics, and vice-versa. 2) The "Balkanization" of the U.S. will weaken the international influence of the U.S. empire, allowing developing nations and others to evade the grip of Western capitalists and neoliberalism, allowing them to pursue their own development path according to their material reality. The unipolar world that merged on the post-Soviet international stage is dead. Stick a fork in it.

sfvegandude 4y ago
> allowing them to pursue their own development path according to their material reality. Development path? What do you think enabled there to be a development path for these nations in the first place? The “material reality” of the every nation on earth save for like, France, the US, NZ, Argentina is not development… it’s de-industrialization. The unipolar world your celebrate the demise of was responsible for the greatest and fastest increase in the quality of life the world has ever seen… ever. You’re right though. It’s over. As is the influence of the US abroad, though not by accident, but by choice.
thecolorblue 4y ago
I'm not sure why this is getting downvoted. I would agree on both points, as long as the relationship stays competitive and not confrontational, both at the state to state level, and country to country. I realize that is a big "if", but as long as everyone stays cool and keeps working on their own version of utopia, it will work out.

tomcam 4y ago

Yep. This was clear to me the second “sanctuary cities” decided they would flout the Constitution.

beej71 4y ago
Genuine question: what part of the Constitution are they flouting?
- bmismyname 4y ago
  Surely they don't mean the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 10th amendments, or the Comity Clause. Maybe there is another amendment that says ICE can kick in your door if they saw non-white people loitering?
  - tomcam 4y ago
    I think you think you’re dunking on me, but I would genuinely like to understand the point you’re making. It will probably negate mine and I’m perfectly fine with that.
- tomcam 4y ago
  Some of violations of the second amendment, some with immigration law. later, before a row versus Wade was dismantled, disallowing abortions when they were federally permitted.
  - beej71 4y ago
    What second amendment violations? The other things don't sound like constitutional violations.
    - tomcam 4y ago
      Generally, banning the right to carry. It's no more constitutional than to ban the right to free speech. The first cities to be sanctuary cities violated Federal and usually state law by refusing to prosecute illegal immigrants. Illegal immigration is a federal crime, period. We have a mechanism to overturn laws we don't like. That's not it.