4 ms·

The "ethno-" in nationalism isn't silent or implied though. Canada has been a very heterogeneous nation for over a century, Israel is also very heterogeneous wh

The "ethno-" in nationalism isn't silent or implied though. Canada has been a very heterogeneous nation for over a century, Israel is also very heterogeneous where people are bound by religion and not ethnicity, France and Spain have a huge and integrated north african populations and they are French and Spanish, full stop. Brazil, also a nation with as much global diversity as is available. This trope that nations as entities are somehow racist is more an artifact of the critical theory that calls everything racist by default, and not of how people actually live together.

danans 4y ago
- zozbot234 4y ago
  > ... Stoking grievances over the increased diversity of those countries ... The underlying grievance is of course not over "increased diversity" per se but rather the long-term decline in civic attitudes. The progressive left expresses the exact same concerns in a different wording, by decrying the increased "marginalization and exclusion" that's seemingly entailed by such diversity. Guess what: they're all looking at pretty much the same thing.
  - danans 4y ago
    > The underlying grievance is of course not over "increased diversity" per se but rather the long-term decline in civic attitudes. I fail to see how the previous US president's complaints about people coming from "s*hole countries" and the exhortations from the Charlottesville rioters about how "Jews will not replace us" are grievances about "decline in civic attitudes". Try as one may to dissociate them, but these are the faces, words, and animating motivation of nationalism today.
    - zozbot234 4y ago
      The sad truth is that Jews have always been used as a convenient scapegoat for grievances of all kinds, and this is just as true on the left as on the nationalist right. For example, Marx famously blamed the rise of bourgeois capitalism on the Jews, and this casual anti-Semitism was picked up by many on the left.
      - danans 4y ago
        > this is just as true on the left as on the nationalist right. For example, Marx famously blamed the rise of bourgeois capitalism on the Jews Your argument is intentionally mixing "is" with "was". Marx died 140 years ago, and there are no ethno-nationalist voices of significance on the left today. In the US context, after the civil rights movement of the 20th century those people left the Democratic party as the parties realigned themselves. Today it is largely a right wing phenomenon, carrying forward the tradition of right wing ethno-nationalism that persisted from the previous century.
jhbadger 4y ago
Whether or not Jewishness is completely an ethnicity is debatable, but a very large number of Israelis (and Jews across the world in general) aren't religious at all -- they see their Jewishness as being defined by their ancestors who were practicing Jews rather than by their own beliefs.

danans 4y ago

zozbot234 4y ago
> ... Stoking grievances over the increased diversity of those countries ... The underlying grievance is of course not over "increased diversity" per se but rather the long-term decline in civic attitudes. The progressive left expresses the exact same concerns in a different wording, by decrying the increased "marginalization and exclusion" that's seemingly entailed by such diversity. Guess what: they're all looking at pretty much the same thing.
- danans 4y ago
  > The underlying grievance is of course not over "increased diversity" per se but rather the long-term decline in civic attitudes. I fail to see how the previous US president's complaints about people coming from "s*hole countries" and the exhortations from the Charlottesville rioters about how "Jews will not replace us" are grievances about "decline in civic attitudes". Try as one may to dissociate them, but these are the faces, words, and animating motivation of nationalism today.
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    The sad truth is that Jews have always been used as a convenient scapegoat for grievances of all kinds, and this is just as true on the left as on the nationalist right. For example, Marx famously blamed the rise of bourgeois capitalism on the Jews, and this casual anti-Semitism was picked up by many on the left.
    - danans 4y ago
      > this is just as true on the left as on the nationalist right. For example, Marx famously blamed the rise of bourgeois capitalism on the Jews Your argument is intentionally mixing "is" with "was". Marx died 140 years ago, and there are no ethno-nationalist voices of significance on the left today. In the US context, after the civil rights movement of the 20th century those people left the Democratic party as the parties realigned themselves. Today it is largely a right wing phenomenon, carrying forward the tradition of right wing ethno-nationalism that persisted from the previous century.

jhbadger 4y ago

Whether or not Jewishness is completely an ethnicity is debatable, but a very large number of Israelis (and Jews across the world in general) aren't religious at all -- they see their Jewishness as being defined by their ancestors who were practicing Jews rather than by their own beliefs.