6 ms·

I broadly agree with this, but it’s going to be hard if by the time I have kids pedestrian fatalities are still on the rise. The article mentions some statistic

I broadly agree with this, but it’s going to be hard if by the time I have kids pedestrian fatalities are still on the rise. The article mentions some statistics that are dropping, but the ones I worry about more are the ones that actually are still increasing, like the chance of my kid getting hit by a car while they’re walking around the neighborhood.

acuozzo 4y ago
> but the ones I worry about more are the ones that actually are still increasing, like the chance of my kid getting hit by a car while they’re walking around the neighborhood Yes! This is my issue as well. Drivers on residential streets have gotten so much worse since I was a kid in the '80/90s.
- narush 4y ago
  Streets themselves have also gotten much worse! The vast difference in car deaths in the US and other countries is more a question of our infrastructure and what it encourages than anything else. I read a really great book about this recently -- no vested interest beyond just really liking it. Check it here [1] [1] https://www.strongtowns.org/book https://www.strongtowns.org/book
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    Once a road becomes 4+ lanes wide (32ft+), and has a speed limit of 40mph (which means people drive at 50mph), it is basically a boundary that children cannot cross. And in suburbs across the US, it is very normal to have numerous arterial roads (40mph speed limit) cut through suburbs that are 4, 6, 7, and even 8 lanes wide. How even a healthy, mobile adult is expected to cross these 60ft+ wide intersections without being scared, I do not know. There will be 3 lanes going straight through, and a right turn lane and a left turn lane. And half the people will be in SUV/pickup trucks sitting so high they will not see you in front of them, and their giant A pillar will prevent them from seeing you on the side of them.
  - daltont 4y ago
    For those of us who are now parents, think about how easily you could travel to your school, nearest park, grocery store, etc. at the house you grew up in and compare that to where you are living now. For me: 1> My kindergarten was adjacent to my subdivision. My Catholic elementary school was less that one mile away and very walkable. The public Jr. High and High Schools I went to were a bit over a mile. None of these required crossing busy four lane roads ("Stroads" in Strong Towns parlance). The one exception was my Pre-K that was more like 3 or 4 miles and would involve crossing a busy four lane road. My kids went to private schools that all required getting on an interstate to get to. Even if they went to public school, the nearest build is 2.8 miles and involve walking along parts without sidewalks. 2> Growing up, I had a big public park adjacent to my subdivision (on the opposite side as the kindergarten) I had most of my soccer and baseball practices there and I walked to them. Similar parks would be 3-5 miles drive across very busy four lane highways where I live now. 3> Nearest grocery store was 1.2 miles from my childhood home. Now, it is 4 miles up and across a very busy four lane highway. Of course a lot of this is just where I happen to be buy my house as an adult and I was fortunate to grow up in a flatter part of town, but it would not be surprising that sprawl has increased the distances on average of these and other basic amenities.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      The old locations still exist, but many are priced out of reach, and the lack of kids leads to the school closing.
- cdot2 4y ago
  I wonder if this is because of phones
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    Large vehicles with reduced visibility, huge engines with lots of power and acceleration, and head height grills plus phones.
    - Bloating 4y ago
      and a boom in the number of younger drivers
- hoosieree 4y ago
  Part of the problem is cars have gotten better/safer/faster and more boring. I like the idea of not allowing highway vehicles near people. Park your interstate cruiser on the edge of town and then drive a golf cart to your house. Bonus: driving a golf cart is fun and feels fast at low speeds.
  - Bloating 4y ago
    ... must be nice living in a resort town
  - _whiteCaps_ 4y ago
    Cars may be safer but SUVs and trucks have not, which unfortunately make up a large part of new vehicle sales around here.
Mordisquitos 4y ago
What about the increasing statistics of mental health issues among children and the increase in childhood inactivity and obesity? Don't those encourage you to let your kid to freely walk around the neighbourhood? Snark aside, the key point is that the statistics that you are worried are still increasing are still nonetheless Black Swan events on an individual scale. Their increase should absolutely be a concern at the political, urban planning, and public health levels, but it should never be a reason to discourage or forbid activities that in all regards are healthier and more formative as a person than their avoidance.
- Thlom 4y ago
  Might they be black swan events because most people are very weary about letting their kids walk around unsupervised?
- ryukafalz 4y ago
  Maybe, but it was the leading cause of death for school-aged children in the US until recently. (Now that’s guns.) That feels like it’s worth worrying about. You’re right, of course - I would much rather my kid have the same feeling of independence that I did than be stuck at home or tethered to their parents. I’ve just moved to one of the only remaining reasonably walkable/bikeable suburbs in my area for that reason. Doesn’t mean it won’t still be hard though given the rising risks. (I’ve also been trying to get involved in safe streets advocacy lately for the same reason. Who knows if that’ll ever have an impact but I have to try.)
philips 4y ago
100% as a parent the issue is cars interacting with children. A suboptimal but creative solution I saw recently was neighbors working together to remove their backyard fences to create a large and safe play area for children in the suburbs. I don’t know what the solution is but it is frightening how society at large just accepts the deaths and injuries. And in my neighborhood how people drive fast around blind corners knowing there is an elementary school 5 blocks away and kids everywhere on all manner of bike/board/walk.
- AlanSE 4y ago
  > suboptimal but creative solution I saw recently was neighbors working together to remove their backyard fences to create a large and safe play area for children in the suburbs. This is something I would love to do, but still feels so impossible. I see some homes compromise and put gates in the fence. Where I am, I see probably 70%+ of homes with backyards using them as bathrooms for their dogs, and I imagine that many people would have a problem just with the basic social contract of who cleans dog poop. Particularly due to COVID, I've begun to appreciate just how severely the suburban structure negatively impacts all aspects of our lives. You have HOAs that invest in common playgrounds, cities that have invested in parks, and virtually everyone reports extremely high satisfaction with these things. Yet my own feelings of isolation tells me that we need much much more. I'm at the point that I would seriously seek out and move to a place with a walk-able kid-friendly setup. But it just doesn't exist.
  - philips 4y ago
    We found a place that was somewhat friendly to being walkable in that school and parks are close. But shopping, library and activities are all a few miles away. But then we added an electric cargo bike (Tern GSD) and it really expanded our sense of connectivity and joy. After almost 400 miles in 5 months it has been great for us.
- ryukafalz 4y ago
  The solution is to make the streets safer. There are well-documented traffic calming methods that work. On neighborhood streets like the one you may be describing that could include things like chicanes and mini roundabouts. The rub is that they make driving less convenient, so it’s hard to get people to support them. But between making our streets safer for kids and making driving a little easier I will always choose safety.

acuozzo 4y ago

> but the ones I worry about more are the ones that actually are still increasing, like the chance of my kid getting hit by a car while they’re walking around the neighborhood Yes! This is my issue as well. Drivers on residential streets have gotten so much worse since I was a kid in the '80/90s.

narush 4y ago
Streets themselves have also gotten much worse! The vast difference in car deaths in the US and other countries is more a question of our infrastructure and what it encourages than anything else. I read a really great book about this recently -- no vested interest beyond just really liking it. Check it here [1] [1] https://www.strongtowns.org/book https://www.strongtowns.org/book
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  Once a road becomes 4+ lanes wide (32ft+), and has a speed limit of 40mph (which means people drive at 50mph), it is basically a boundary that children cannot cross. And in suburbs across the US, it is very normal to have numerous arterial roads (40mph speed limit) cut through suburbs that are 4, 6, 7, and even 8 lanes wide. How even a healthy, mobile adult is expected to cross these 60ft+ wide intersections without being scared, I do not know. There will be 3 lanes going straight through, and a right turn lane and a left turn lane. And half the people will be in SUV/pickup trucks sitting so high they will not see you in front of them, and their giant A pillar will prevent them from seeing you on the side of them.
- daltont 4y ago
  For those of us who are now parents, think about how easily you could travel to your school, nearest park, grocery store, etc. at the house you grew up in and compare that to where you are living now. For me: 1> My kindergarten was adjacent to my subdivision. My Catholic elementary school was less that one mile away and very walkable. The public Jr. High and High Schools I went to were a bit over a mile. None of these required crossing busy four lane roads ("Stroads" in Strong Towns parlance). The one exception was my Pre-K that was more like 3 or 4 miles and would involve crossing a busy four lane road. My kids went to private schools that all required getting on an interstate to get to. Even if they went to public school, the nearest build is 2.8 miles and involve walking along parts without sidewalks. 2> Growing up, I had a big public park adjacent to my subdivision (on the opposite side as the kindergarten) I had most of my soccer and baseball practices there and I walked to them. Similar parks would be 3-5 miles drive across very busy four lane highways where I live now. 3> Nearest grocery store was 1.2 miles from my childhood home. Now, it is 4 miles up and across a very busy four lane highway. Of course a lot of this is just where I happen to be buy my house as an adult and I was fortunate to grow up in a flatter part of town, but it would not be surprising that sprawl has increased the distances on average of these and other basic amenities.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    The old locations still exist, but many are priced out of reach, and the lack of kids leads to the school closing.
cdot2 4y ago
I wonder if this is because of phones
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  Large vehicles with reduced visibility, huge engines with lots of power and acceleration, and head height grills plus phones.
  - Bloating 4y ago
    and a boom in the number of younger drivers
hoosieree 4y ago
Part of the problem is cars have gotten better/safer/faster and more boring. I like the idea of not allowing highway vehicles near people. Park your interstate cruiser on the edge of town and then drive a golf cart to your house. Bonus: driving a golf cart is fun and feels fast at low speeds.
- Bloating 4y ago
  ... must be nice living in a resort town
- _whiteCaps_ 4y ago
  Cars may be safer but SUVs and trucks have not, which unfortunately make up a large part of new vehicle sales around here.

Mordisquitos 4y ago

What about the increasing statistics of mental health issues among children and the increase in childhood inactivity and obesity? Don't those encourage you to let your kid to freely walk around the neighbourhood? Snark aside, the key point is that the statistics that you are worried are still increasing are still nonetheless Black Swan events on an individual scale. Their increase should absolutely be a concern at the political, urban planning, and public health levels, but it should never be a reason to discourage or forbid activities that in all regards are healthier and more formative as a person than their avoidance.

Thlom 4y ago
Might they be black swan events because most people are very weary about letting their kids walk around unsupervised?
ryukafalz 4y ago
Maybe, but it was the leading cause of death for school-aged children in the US until recently. (Now that’s guns.) That feels like it’s worth worrying about. You’re right, of course - I would much rather my kid have the same feeling of independence that I did than be stuck at home or tethered to their parents. I’ve just moved to one of the only remaining reasonably walkable/bikeable suburbs in my area for that reason. Doesn’t mean it won’t still be hard though given the rising risks. (I’ve also been trying to get involved in safe streets advocacy lately for the same reason. Who knows if that’ll ever have an impact but I have to try.)

philips 4y ago

100% as a parent the issue is cars interacting with children. A suboptimal but creative solution I saw recently was neighbors working together to remove their backyard fences to create a large and safe play area for children in the suburbs. I don’t know what the solution is but it is frightening how society at large just accepts the deaths and injuries. And in my neighborhood how people drive fast around blind corners knowing there is an elementary school 5 blocks away and kids everywhere on all manner of bike/board/walk.

AlanSE 4y ago
> suboptimal but creative solution I saw recently was neighbors working together to remove their backyard fences to create a large and safe play area for children in the suburbs. This is something I would love to do, but still feels so impossible. I see some homes compromise and put gates in the fence. Where I am, I see probably 70%+ of homes with backyards using them as bathrooms for their dogs, and I imagine that many people would have a problem just with the basic social contract of who cleans dog poop. Particularly due to COVID, I've begun to appreciate just how severely the suburban structure negatively impacts all aspects of our lives. You have HOAs that invest in common playgrounds, cities that have invested in parks, and virtually everyone reports extremely high satisfaction with these things. Yet my own feelings of isolation tells me that we need much much more. I'm at the point that I would seriously seek out and move to a place with a walk-able kid-friendly setup. But it just doesn't exist.
- philips 4y ago
  We found a place that was somewhat friendly to being walkable in that school and parks are close. But shopping, library and activities are all a few miles away. But then we added an electric cargo bike (Tern GSD) and it really expanded our sense of connectivity and joy. After almost 400 miles in 5 months it has been great for us.
ryukafalz 4y ago
The solution is to make the streets safer. There are well-documented traffic calming methods that work. On neighborhood streets like the one you may be describing that could include things like chicanes and mini roundabouts. The rub is that they make driving less convenient, so it’s hard to get people to support them. But between making our streets safer for kids and making driving a little easier I will always choose safety.