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Is there a way that adults who are capable of critically thinking for themselves to opt out of your crusade to protect us from ideas you disagree with?

kitsunesoba 4y ago
Problem is, there’s been an active war against critical thought across multiple fronts for a while now, which includes campaigns in social and traditional media and attacks on the education system. Youth and unwitting adults alike are being trained to stay angry and act on impulse rather than address situations as thoughtful, well-rounded members of society would. I won’t claim to have a solution, but there are clearly severe problems afoot and ceasing all filtering alone isn’t going to result in an outcome any better than systematic censoring will.
- wikitopian 4y ago
  I understand you believe there's a compelling case for placing your hand over my mouth. I'm sure you earnestly believe your case, and think placing your hand over my mouth is the moral, right, and just thing to do. Time will tell if you're capable of holding it there.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    I guess what I’m getting at is that if we’re to eliminate all traces of censorship, other actions must be taken in parallel to not allow the negative effects of doing that spiral out of control. A starting point might be to restore Fairness Doctrine and other policies that help prevent traditional media from becoming hyper-polarized Nielsen-rating-chasing entertainment rather than legitimate news sources, as well as holding social media directly responsible for the problems brought by bot farms and other types of amplifying manipulation.
    - wikitopian 4y ago
      But what if you're incorrect? What if bots and bad actors aren't really the driving force behind the existential divorce? What if Americans are going in different directions by their own volition? What if using the state to ensure your side wins is unwise and harmful?
      - kitsunesoba 4y ago
        It’s not about sides, it’s about people getting caught up in echo chambers and refusing to have dialogue with each other as a result. People all over the political spectrum fall victim to this. It’s been proven repeatedly that social media is crawling with bots and agents with vested interests and are largely responsible for stoking the division we’ve been seeing. Traditional media is the other fork of this, which thrives when there’s an “us vs. them” narrative with heroes and villains and has been unashamedly leaning into that strategy further with each passing year. Some of the division is organic and has always been there — something I’m all too aware of with family spanning the political spectrum — but social and traditional media have multiplied the effect by hundreds of times.
      - wikitopian 4y ago
        I still disagree with your perspective, but appreciate your thoughtful replies. I agree it's a scary and serious situation.
  - CJefferson 4y ago
    So what exactly is the type of thing you want to say that kitsunesoba is forbidding you from saying?
    - wikitopian 4y ago
      The Ohio river has more volume and the Missouri river has greater length, so it's total bullshit that it's called the Mississippi all the way to the gulf. They don't want you to know this.
aaroninsf 4y ago
Part of the challenge we face as a society is that the hypothetical "war of ideas" picture, in which adults think critically and are swayed by logic, fact, and reasoning, as a function of their experience and values, is not just a fantasy, it's become a weapon used by exactly those who work more successfully to sway opinion and in effect public behavior through mechanisms that entirely bypass or undermine exactly this scenario. The premise that it is the responsibility, indeed the "appropriate" role, of "critically thinking adults" to individually defend themselves in an information sphere almost totally controlled by entities whose resources and expertise in manipulating individuals, is outright dangerous. The entire peril we are in as a society is that weaponized speech is like other weapons of war: something that individuals cannot defend against and are helpless before. QED what we need is a societal response, and society-level defense. That starts with awareness of how f---d we already are.

kitsunesoba 4y ago

Problem is, there’s been an active war against critical thought across multiple fronts for a while now, which includes campaigns in social and traditional media and attacks on the education system. Youth and unwitting adults alike are being trained to stay angry and act on impulse rather than address situations as thoughtful, well-rounded members of society would. I won’t claim to have a solution, but there are clearly severe problems afoot and ceasing all filtering alone isn’t going to result in an outcome any better than systematic censoring will.

wikitopian 4y ago
I understand you believe there's a compelling case for placing your hand over my mouth. I'm sure you earnestly believe your case, and think placing your hand over my mouth is the moral, right, and just thing to do. Time will tell if you're capable of holding it there.
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  I guess what I’m getting at is that if we’re to eliminate all traces of censorship, other actions must be taken in parallel to not allow the negative effects of doing that spiral out of control. A starting point might be to restore Fairness Doctrine and other policies that help prevent traditional media from becoming hyper-polarized Nielsen-rating-chasing entertainment rather than legitimate news sources, as well as holding social media directly responsible for the problems brought by bot farms and other types of amplifying manipulation.
  - wikitopian 4y ago
    But what if you're incorrect? What if bots and bad actors aren't really the driving force behind the existential divorce? What if Americans are going in different directions by their own volition? What if using the state to ensure your side wins is unwise and harmful?
    - kitsunesoba 4y ago
      It’s not about sides, it’s about people getting caught up in echo chambers and refusing to have dialogue with each other as a result. People all over the political spectrum fall victim to this. It’s been proven repeatedly that social media is crawling with bots and agents with vested interests and are largely responsible for stoking the division we’ve been seeing. Traditional media is the other fork of this, which thrives when there’s an “us vs. them” narrative with heroes and villains and has been unashamedly leaning into that strategy further with each passing year. Some of the division is organic and has always been there — something I’m all too aware of with family spanning the political spectrum — but social and traditional media have multiplied the effect by hundreds of times.
    - wikitopian 4y ago
      I still disagree with your perspective, but appreciate your thoughtful replies. I agree it's a scary and serious situation.
- CJefferson 4y ago
  So what exactly is the type of thing you want to say that kitsunesoba is forbidding you from saying?
  - wikitopian 4y ago
    The Ohio river has more volume and the Missouri river has greater length, so it's total bullshit that it's called the Mississippi all the way to the gulf. They don't want you to know this.

aaroninsf 4y ago

Part of the challenge we face as a society is that the hypothetical "war of ideas" picture, in which adults think critically and are swayed by logic, fact, and reasoning, as a function of their experience and values, is not just a fantasy, it's become a weapon used by exactly those who work more successfully to sway opinion and in effect public behavior through mechanisms that entirely bypass or undermine exactly this scenario. The premise that it is the responsibility, indeed the "appropriate" role, of "critically thinking adults" to individually defend themselves in an information sphere almost totally controlled by entities whose resources and expertise in manipulating individuals, is outright dangerous. The entire peril we are in as a society is that weaponized speech is like other weapons of war: something that individuals cannot defend against and are helpless before. QED what we need is a societal response, and society-level defense. That starts with awareness of how f---d we already are.