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You're arguing that correlation does not imply causation. Fair. So tell me: how would you manage to build a website like Facebook without robust JS tooling? Th

You're arguing that correlation does not imply causation. Fair. So tell me: how would you manage to build a website like Facebook without robust JS tooling? The answer tends to be "wellll I hate most of these features anyways, let's get rid of them and then it can be as simple as HackerNews!" But obviously, millions of people use those features every day and like them. The tooling solves a real problem.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
There are industries that use real robust tooling to run banks, build databases, control surgical robots. They don't choose Javascript, it has all the robustness of a wet noodle. Desktop and Mobile application are reasonably robust, have very complex software and could do everything Facebook does trivially. All this 'robust tooling' has evolved because we are trying to shove an application into a browser, and despite decades of effort. it still kinda sucks. If Apple, Microsoft and various distributions of Linux pulled the finger out of their collective asses and agreed on a half-decent, cross-platform GUI software package in 2005, none of this JS madness would exist.
- HeyImAlex 4y ago
  Ah can’t wait to finally build a cross platform app without complex JS tooling once I take my time machine back to 2005 and change the course of cross platform GUI development forever.
- qsort 4y ago
  > cross-platform GUI software package And cross-platform APIs, cross-platform libc, cross-platform networking... and then the same shuffle on mobile, making sure everything is compatible? Supporting x86 and ARM? The web does suck, there's no getting around that. HTML and the DOM are garbage even at their original purpose, let alone at writing applications, and everything on top of that is a kludge on a kludge on a kludge. But let's not pretend dealing with OS APIs from the 90s is much better. We've been trying to get away from that as early as we could with e.g. Java.
- scrollaway 4y ago
  Lots of "robust" industries choose the JS ecosystem. I work in Fintech. There's a lot of tooling to make JS-as-a-language more robust, including TypeScript and some of the best linters, debuggers and introspective libraries available in the entire tech industry. The only reason JS isn't used more than it is, is because its robustness is young, not non-existent.
- phailhaus 4y ago
  > If Apple, Microsoft and various distributions of Linux pulled the finger out of their collective asses and agreed on a half-decent, cross-platform GUI software package in 2005, none of this JS madness would exist. This is what browsers are. You are describing browsers. They run on any device, on any architecture, and nowadays even on the edge. This isn't just about GUIs. I can't stand this lazy mentality of "pfft, I know better than these billion dollar companies, have they tried just making it good???"

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

There are industries that use real robust tooling to run banks, build databases, control surgical robots. They don't choose Javascript, it has all the robustness of a wet noodle. Desktop and Mobile application are reasonably robust, have very complex software and could do everything Facebook does trivially. All this 'robust tooling' has evolved because we are trying to shove an application into a browser, and despite decades of effort. it still kinda sucks. If Apple, Microsoft and various distributions of Linux pulled the finger out of their collective asses and agreed on a half-decent, cross-platform GUI software package in 2005, none of this JS madness would exist.

HeyImAlex 4y ago
Ah can’t wait to finally build a cross platform app without complex JS tooling once I take my time machine back to 2005 and change the course of cross platform GUI development forever.
qsort 4y ago
> cross-platform GUI software package And cross-platform APIs, cross-platform libc, cross-platform networking... and then the same shuffle on mobile, making sure everything is compatible? Supporting x86 and ARM? The web does suck, there's no getting around that. HTML and the DOM are garbage even at their original purpose, let alone at writing applications, and everything on top of that is a kludge on a kludge on a kludge. But let's not pretend dealing with OS APIs from the 90s is much better. We've been trying to get away from that as early as we could with e.g. Java.
scrollaway 4y ago
Lots of "robust" industries choose the JS ecosystem. I work in Fintech. There's a lot of tooling to make JS-as-a-language more robust, including TypeScript and some of the best linters, debuggers and introspective libraries available in the entire tech industry. The only reason JS isn't used more than it is, is because its robustness is young, not non-existent.
phailhaus 4y ago
> If Apple, Microsoft and various distributions of Linux pulled the finger out of their collective asses and agreed on a half-decent, cross-platform GUI software package in 2005, none of this JS madness would exist. This is what browsers are. You are describing browsers. They run on any device, on any architecture, and nowadays even on the edge. This isn't just about GUIs. I can't stand this lazy mentality of "pfft, I know better than these billion dollar companies, have they tried just making it good???"