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This situation is infuriating to me as a Swede. We use basically no natural gas or oil for heating or power production, and right now we're exporting 3.8 GW to

This situation is infuriating to me as a Swede. We use basically no natural gas or oil for heating or power production, and right now we're exporting 3.8 GW to other countries, showing that we have a power surplus equaling several nuclear reactors. A few days ago I heard that we where the largest power exporter in Europe. Even so, our power prices are through the roof because the price is set by the high export prices. We're paying approximately 5X-10X what we're used to because of the extremely poor energy policies in other countries. Nevermind being dependent on Russia, which has been a terror state killing politicians and journalists for decades, they should have invested heavily in energy efficiency and switching from fossil fuels years ago. Now we're paying the price for their idiocy. Not that our government is perfect either, they've given large US companies like Microsoft and Amazon tax cuts on power to get them to build datacenters.

blub 4y ago
Perhaps it would soften the blow if one doesn’t think of the present problems as paying for the idiocy of others, but rather as helping fellow Europeans through a potentially long, cold winter. Or helping Ukraine fight for democracy, for freedom, for Europe. I don’t think that in the EU we’ve fully exhausted the benefits of virtue and moral grandstanding, it’s too early to give up or be upset. And Sweden always had a claim at being a moral super-power.
- sorenjan 4y ago
  Helping others solve their own problems doesn't keep your home warm, or food affordable. This isn't about helping Ukraine, it's about dealing with the aftermath of closing nuclear power, building not one but two natural gas pipelines to Russia, not prioritizing energy efficiency like insulation and heat pumps, and so on. Even before Putin went full crazy climate change was supposed to be a serious crisis. Edit: I forgot an important point. I don't have anything against exporting power to our neighbors. My issue is that we have to pay the expensive power prices set by the expensive export. Our power hasn't suddenly become 5X-10X more expensive to produce, if we could keep our usual price and sell the surplus to other countries at the prices they want to pay I wouldn't mind it.
  - ant6n 4y ago
    Also remember Germany (or better, the CDU) blocked nato membership of Ukraine. Thanks again Angie!
  - Kon-Peki 4y ago
    > Even before Putin went full crazy climate change was supposed to be a serious crisis This. I am guilty too. I know there really isn't much I can do to "help" except to accelerate my home energy efficiency plans, which will free up some small amount of gas for export this winter. But why do I need to accelerate my plans? I made them last year. Why did it take an invasion halfway around the world to get me moving?
zppln 4y ago
My colleague joked today that this is the third time Germany ruins Europe...
- blub 4y ago
  To be fair to Germany, only there can one import Russian gas at scale, take out all the genocide and terrorism using very precise custom designed filters and export it back to Poland or Ukraine as freedom gas. Germany did end up getting a rather bad rap though, which is why I think Russia decided to help out by cutting gas deliveries.
tmikaeld 4y ago
The fair thing would be for Swedes to pay pre-export prices.
- sorenjan 4y ago
  Yes, especially because we already have four different price zones. Power is still relatively cheap in northern Sweden and out of control in the southern part. The reason for the zones are said to be because of limited transfer capability from the big hydro power plants from north to south, adding a fifth zone for export would seem to be the reasonable solution.
- lostmsu 4y ago
  I think long term it already is fair: the extra profits should end up in Sweden economy, and citizens should come out wealthier as a whole.
  - tmikaeld 4y ago
    You think it's fair that elders are forced to sell their houses, because they cannot afford to pay for basic utility? [0] [0] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/helsingborg/han-flyttar-fran-sitt-hus-i-astorp-till-en-lagenhet-for-att-elrakningarna-blev-for-dyra https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/helsingborg/han-flyttar-fr... And that it's fair that businesses have to shut down? [1][2][3] [1] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/helsingborg/klippans-bruk-pausar-produktionen-pa-grund-av-hoga-energipriser https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/helsingborg/klippans-bruk-... [2] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/pizzan-kostar-300-kronor-styck-att-baka-elpriserna-tvingar-dem-att-stanga https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/pizzan-kostar-300-kronor-... [3] https://www.smp.se/lessebo/lessebo-paper-stoppar-produktionen-for-att-elen-ar-for-dyr/ https://www.smp.se/lessebo/lessebo-paper-stoppar-produktione... This is just the beginning by the way and 4 out of 5 jobs are created by small-medium businesses in Sweden. [4] https://www.di.se/pressreleaser/2022/06/10/foretagarforbundet-var-ar-sveriges-smaforetagarminister/ https://www.di.se/pressreleaser/2022/06/10/foretagarforbunde... Socialism is nice until you run out of other peoples money.
    - 4y ago

blub 4y ago

Perhaps it would soften the blow if one doesn’t think of the present problems as paying for the idiocy of others, but rather as helping fellow Europeans through a potentially long, cold winter. Or helping Ukraine fight for democracy, for freedom, for Europe. I don’t think that in the EU we’ve fully exhausted the benefits of virtue and moral grandstanding, it’s too early to give up or be upset. And Sweden always had a claim at being a moral super-power.

sorenjan 4y ago
Helping others solve their own problems doesn't keep your home warm, or food affordable. This isn't about helping Ukraine, it's about dealing with the aftermath of closing nuclear power, building not one but two natural gas pipelines to Russia, not prioritizing energy efficiency like insulation and heat pumps, and so on. Even before Putin went full crazy climate change was supposed to be a serious crisis. Edit: I forgot an important point. I don't have anything against exporting power to our neighbors. My issue is that we have to pay the expensive power prices set by the expensive export. Our power hasn't suddenly become 5X-10X more expensive to produce, if we could keep our usual price and sell the surplus to other countries at the prices they want to pay I wouldn't mind it.
- ant6n 4y ago
  Also remember Germany (or better, the CDU) blocked nato membership of Ukraine. Thanks again Angie!
- Kon-Peki 4y ago
  > Even before Putin went full crazy climate change was supposed to be a serious crisis This. I am guilty too. I know there really isn't much I can do to "help" except to accelerate my home energy efficiency plans, which will free up some small amount of gas for export this winter. But why do I need to accelerate my plans? I made them last year. Why did it take an invasion halfway around the world to get me moving?

zppln 4y ago

My colleague joked today that this is the third time Germany ruins Europe...

blub 4y ago
To be fair to Germany, only there can one import Russian gas at scale, take out all the genocide and terrorism using very precise custom designed filters and export it back to Poland or Ukraine as freedom gas. Germany did end up getting a rather bad rap though, which is why I think Russia decided to help out by cutting gas deliveries.

tmikaeld 4y ago

The fair thing would be for Swedes to pay pre-export prices.

sorenjan 4y ago
Yes, especially because we already have four different price zones. Power is still relatively cheap in northern Sweden and out of control in the southern part. The reason for the zones are said to be because of limited transfer capability from the big hydro power plants from north to south, adding a fifth zone for export would seem to be the reasonable solution.
lostmsu 4y ago
I think long term it already is fair: the extra profits should end up in Sweden economy, and citizens should come out wealthier as a whole.
- tmikaeld 4y ago
  You think it's fair that elders are forced to sell their houses, because they cannot afford to pay for basic utility? [0] [0] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/helsingborg/han-flyttar-fran-sitt-hus-i-astorp-till-en-lagenhet-for-att-elrakningarna-blev-for-dyra https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/helsingborg/han-flyttar-fr... And that it's fair that businesses have to shut down? [1][2][3] [1] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/helsingborg/klippans-bruk-pausar-produktionen-pa-grund-av-hoga-energipriser https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/helsingborg/klippans-bruk-... [2] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/pizzan-kostar-300-kronor-styck-att-baka-elpriserna-tvingar-dem-att-stanga https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/pizzan-kostar-300-kronor-... [3] https://www.smp.se/lessebo/lessebo-paper-stoppar-produktionen-for-att-elen-ar-for-dyr/ https://www.smp.se/lessebo/lessebo-paper-stoppar-produktione... This is just the beginning by the way and 4 out of 5 jobs are created by small-medium businesses in Sweden. [4] https://www.di.se/pressreleaser/2022/06/10/foretagarforbundet-var-ar-sveriges-smaforetagarminister/ https://www.di.se/pressreleaser/2022/06/10/foretagarforbunde... Socialism is nice until you run out of other peoples money.
  - 4y ago