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Unsustainable. If you're a wealthy individual living in an expensive residence surrounded by other wealthy individuals living in expensive residences, you still

Unsustainable. If you're a wealthy individual living in an expensive residence surrounded by other wealthy individuals living in expensive residences, you still need garbagemen to collect your garbage. You still need food. Whether you order from local restaurants staffed by employees, or buy your groceries at the supermarket, staffed by employees, janitorial personnel, security guards, and managers, you're still relying on the labor of ordinary people. If your power goes out or there is a water leak in your home, you need an electrician or a plumber. Preferably one who doesn't have to live five hours away. If you need an ambulance and medical attention, you need doctors, nurses, and medical personnel. Hopefully they didn't get priced out of a 50 mile radius of your home. And if the world consisted of only millionaires and an army of robots, if everyone is a millionaire, no one is. A carton of milk would just cost $700 and a lower end house $30M. Be a YIMBY. Embrace looser zoning regulations and more and denser housing where you live. And don't jack up the rent to market rates if you're already turning a profit.

josefresco 4y ago
Apparently the wealthy with vacation homes on Cape Cod didn't get your memo. Our local businesses don't have enough workers due to unattainable housing. Enjoy your long lines, reduced hours and hollow communities! At least there will be lots of pickleball courts!
- foogazi 4y ago
  > Our local businesses don't have enough workers due to unattainable housing. due to not paying enough
  - josefresco 4y ago
    There is no workforce. It's not a matter of paying more, it's a lack of workers aka families. The average age of someone living on Cape Cod has increased every year for decades. The cost of housing after COVID went from "unreasonable" to "insane". Local businesses and towns are throwing money at the few young people still here in an attempt to recruit workers but there just isn't enough to handle the scale up for summer volume. The band-aid for years was J1 workers but it's no longer enough. The wealthy don't think about Cape Cod for 1 second once they cross the canal, or leave the runway in Hyannis/MV/Nantucket. They seemingly don't realize that their "tax dollars" which they claim are a gift to the local region, aren't helping or solving any of these problems. What we're seeing now is consolidation of businesses, and the construction of worker "dormitory" housing. That's the future for our region. Multi-million dollar trophy homes, and worker dormitories.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - foogazi 4y ago
      > Multi-million dollar trophy homes, and worker dormitories. Because they are not paying them enough- hence the need for J1 workers
bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
If California urban centers like SF and LA are any example - the “sustainable” limit is somewhere around two-three hours away.
- frenchy 4y ago
  That's only sustainable for now because car fuel is cheap. It's not guaranteed to stay that way.
  - consp 4y ago
    In Europe it isn't, so that 2h number goes down very rapidly.
zozbot234 4y ago
It's not really unsustainable - Switzerland and other wealthy microstates show us the long-term outcome, which is quite desirable. In fact, the "ordinary people" will eventually benefit the most, since their wages will grow to match the prevalent cost of living. Transition can of course be difficult.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- aprdm 4y ago
  How big is Switzerland population?
  - MagnumOpus 4y ago
    The same as Portugal's, very roughly. (Or the same as the greater Bay Area if you wish.) So the point is applicable.
- polotics 4y ago
  Switzerland does not qualify as a microstate at all. You're looking at a population that would fill Los Angeles, twice over... The one thing that is sure is public transportation is night and day, and this helps a lot fight the mad-commute effect for non-millionaires.
  - joshlemer 4y ago
    Not twice over, Swiss population is 8-9 million. 10 million live in LA.
    - polotics 4y ago
      we are both right, wikipedia to the rescue Population (2020)[8] • Total 3,898,747 • Density 8,304.22/sq mi (3,206.29/km2) • Metro[9] 13,200,998 (2nd)
gregoriol 4y ago
If a place has only millionaires, prices for many basic things will be very high compared to other places, like for plumbers: there will be less plumbers and those willing to go there will be able to raise prices, a lot. Same for groceries, cleanup, ...
notch656a 4y ago
San Francisco solved it with homeless camps and effectively decriminalizing theft under $950.
- elforce002 4y ago
  My God. Really?!
- Ligma123 4y ago
  And now robbing stores is becoming rampant as we can all testify by the loads of videos of "youngsters" entering stores and taking what they want without anyone doing anything.
LatteLazy 4y ago
Of course, all those people can live 50 miles away and commute in and out every day...
andrepd 4y ago
> Be a YIMBY. Embrace looser zoning regulations and more and denser housing where you live. And don't jack up the rent to market rates if you're already turning a profit. Eh. Waiting for people to forgo short-term profit from the goodness of their hearts under capitalism is a losing battle. The system must be built to prevent such behaviours and outcomes, rather than relying on individual good-will.
- bhupy 4y ago
  I mean, by that logic, waiting for people to choose to vote in such a manner that changes the system (from the goodness of their hearts, no less) is a losing battle also. Remember, changing the system (whatever that means) involves the same democratic buy-in as loosening zoning regulations. Ultimately, the only way to change to change things under a democratic process is to win hearts and minds, and in either approach, people will have to make hard decisions. Either it's forgoing short-term profit by loosening zoning regulations or forgoing even long term profit by enacting whatever large scale systemic change one envisions will solve the problem (strict price controls, rationing, expropriation, etc).
duderific 4y ago
> you need an electrician or a plumber. Preferably one who doesn't have to live five hours away. FWIW the electricians and plumbers are the ones living right next door to the techies. They charge ridiculously high hourly rates and there aren't nearly enough of them, so they can keep raising their rates almost without limit. Try to find a decent electrician for less than $150/hr (this is SF Bay Area). A refrigerator repairman will charge you $300 just to walk in your house and diagnose an issue.

josefresco 4y ago

Apparently the wealthy with vacation homes on Cape Cod didn't get your memo. Our local businesses don't have enough workers due to unattainable housing. Enjoy your long lines, reduced hours and hollow communities! At least there will be lots of pickleball courts!

foogazi 4y ago
> Our local businesses don't have enough workers due to unattainable housing. due to not paying enough
- josefresco 4y ago
  There is no workforce. It's not a matter of paying more, it's a lack of workers aka families. The average age of someone living on Cape Cod has increased every year for decades. The cost of housing after COVID went from "unreasonable" to "insane". Local businesses and towns are throwing money at the few young people still here in an attempt to recruit workers but there just isn't enough to handle the scale up for summer volume. The band-aid for years was J1 workers but it's no longer enough. The wealthy don't think about Cape Cod for 1 second once they cross the canal, or leave the runway in Hyannis/MV/Nantucket. They seemingly don't realize that their "tax dollars" which they claim are a gift to the local region, aren't helping or solving any of these problems. What we're seeing now is consolidation of businesses, and the construction of worker "dormitory" housing. That's the future for our region. Multi-million dollar trophy homes, and worker dormitories.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - foogazi 4y ago
    > Multi-million dollar trophy homes, and worker dormitories. Because they are not paying them enough- hence the need for J1 workers

bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago

If California urban centers like SF and LA are any example - the “sustainable” limit is somewhere around two-three hours away.

frenchy 4y ago
That's only sustainable for now because car fuel is cheap. It's not guaranteed to stay that way.
- consp 4y ago
  In Europe it isn't, so that 2h number goes down very rapidly.

zozbot234 4y ago

It's not really unsustainable - Switzerland and other wealthy microstates show us the long-term outcome, which is quite desirable. In fact, the "ordinary people" will eventually benefit the most, since their wages will grow to match the prevalent cost of living. Transition can of course be difficult.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
aprdm 4y ago
How big is Switzerland population?
- MagnumOpus 4y ago
  The same as Portugal's, very roughly. (Or the same as the greater Bay Area if you wish.) So the point is applicable.
polotics 4y ago
Switzerland does not qualify as a microstate at all. You're looking at a population that would fill Los Angeles, twice over... The one thing that is sure is public transportation is night and day, and this helps a lot fight the mad-commute effect for non-millionaires.
- joshlemer 4y ago
  Not twice over, Swiss population is 8-9 million. 10 million live in LA.
  - polotics 4y ago
    we are both right, wikipedia to the rescue Population (2020)[8] • Total 3,898,747 • Density 8,304.22/sq mi (3,206.29/km2) • Metro[9] 13,200,998 (2nd)

gregoriol 4y ago

If a place has only millionaires, prices for many basic things will be very high compared to other places, like for plumbers: there will be less plumbers and those willing to go there will be able to raise prices, a lot. Same for groceries, cleanup, ...

notch656a 4y ago

San Francisco solved it with homeless camps and effectively decriminalizing theft under $950.

elforce002 4y ago
My God. Really?!
Ligma123 4y ago
And now robbing stores is becoming rampant as we can all testify by the loads of videos of "youngsters" entering stores and taking what they want without anyone doing anything.

LatteLazy 4y ago

Of course, all those people can live 50 miles away and commute in and out every day...

andrepd 4y ago

> Be a YIMBY. Embrace looser zoning regulations and more and denser housing where you live. And don't jack up the rent to market rates if you're already turning a profit. Eh. Waiting for people to forgo short-term profit from the goodness of their hearts under capitalism is a losing battle. The system must be built to prevent such behaviours and outcomes, rather than relying on individual good-will.

bhupy 4y ago
I mean, by that logic, waiting for people to choose to vote in such a manner that changes the system (from the goodness of their hearts, no less) is a losing battle also. Remember, changing the system (whatever that means) involves the same democratic buy-in as loosening zoning regulations. Ultimately, the only way to change to change things under a democratic process is to win hearts and minds, and in either approach, people will have to make hard decisions. Either it's forgoing short-term profit by loosening zoning regulations or forgoing even long term profit by enacting whatever large scale systemic change one envisions will solve the problem (strict price controls, rationing, expropriation, etc).

duderific 4y ago

> you need an electrician or a plumber. Preferably one who doesn't have to live five hours away. FWIW the electricians and plumbers are the ones living right next door to the techies. They charge ridiculously high hourly rates and there aren't nearly enough of them, so they can keep raising their rates almost without limit. Try to find a decent electrician for less than $150/hr (this is SF Bay Area). A refrigerator repairman will charge you $300 just to walk in your house and diagnose an issue.