4 ms·
Ask HN: To what degree should one lie about experience when applying for jobs?
Been thinking about this one lately and I'm sure the HN community has some interesting opinions on this...
It's widely accepted around here that hiring in Tech is pretty broken. Good engineers are routinely rejected due to asinine HR requirements such as not having experience in a particular technology or for taking legitimate career breaks. Plus, most job postings are already inundated by CVs that range from those that have minor embellishments to those that contain outright lies. (Not to mention the fact that employers are often engaging in deceitful behaviour about the nature of their own roles)
Given this, engineers that elect to be more honest are potentially putting themselves at a significant career disadvantage.
In light of all this, if one is certain that they would be a good applicant for the job:
A) Is it unethical to lie about one's experience in order to get the job?
B) Is it smart to do so given the risk of getting caught out?
"Lying" here could mean anything from listing experience in a (easily learned, possibly adjacent) technology, to things such as listing fake jobs or using a friend as a job reference.
For those with spotty resumes, is this an allowable form of deceit?
If one believes that "lying" is acceptable to some degree, what techniques are fair game? What should be avoided?
- orbz 4y agoAnything I see on a resume I consider fair game to dig into in an interview. If you aren’t able to get into the weeds on it it’s pretty much a no hire unless you absolutely blew me away elsewhere which honestly is super rare (800+ interviews given).
- askn 4y agoYeah this appears to be the point in which one would get caught out. Not sure if this applies to where you've run interviews, but hypothetically speaking, if a candidate lied or embellished their resume to get past the initial HR/ATS hurdle (often a poor judge of tech skills), but then came clean in the first formal interview, would you be willing to give them a chance to prove themselves, or would this generally lead to the "no hire" situation?
- PaulHoule 4y agohttps://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/56824/tell-all-the-truth-but-tell-it-slant-1263 https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/56824/tell-all-the-tr... Don't lie. If you are caught in a lie you can immediately be dismissed. Dissimulation is OK. I've had times that I left out some of my educational history on my resume because I didn't want to be perceived as "overqualified". Self-promotion is OK. For instance if there is some hot technology that is easy to learn and adjacent to your experiment you can knock off a quick but flashy side project. Job interviews frequently work to reject candidates by default, there is a large bag of tricks that can be used to disrupt this process. One reason why bureaucratic places like Google have structured hiring processes is to prevent the use of judo and Jedi mind tricks that work on the average hiring manager. This guy's writings are tame compared to what I know but were pivotal in my losing my fear of job interviews https://job-interview-answers.com/job-interview-tips/about-bob-firestone/ https://job-interview-answers.com/job-interview-tips/about-b... I'd say the ethics of these methods depend on your motivation and how you use them. There are many hiring managers who feel like they've wasted a huge amount of time interviewing the last 10 people they rejected and you will make them very happy that they can hire somebody and get back to work.
- askn 4y agoI perhaps should have phrased the discussion in terms of dishonesty rather than lying. As you've suggested, outright lying gives no room to maneuver once caught, but more malleable forms of dishonesty like "dissimulation" and "self-promotion" are useful. I definitely think these mind tricks are worth applying... Because, unfortunately interviews aren't really ever assessing someone for their pure skills, but for their perceived skills. We all deserve work that pays the bills, so any trick, however ethical, should be allowable.
- PaulHoule 4y agoI'd put it this way. Most people interview below their level because they make avoidable mistakes. If you can avoid those mistakes you can interview above your level compared to your peers. One reason why stack ranking (fire the bottom 10% every year) is such a dangerous policy is that self-promotion plays a big role in how you get ranked. One thing that is certain is that the narcissists will always hang on because they are well-equipped to win games of musical chairs. I think there is nothing dishonest about leaving things out. For instance in that job application where I left out the fact that I had a PhD I still had a resume that proved I was completely qualified for the job. Similarly self-promotion can be perfectly honest. Most of us are modest sometimes when we don't need to be. For instance I am working on a report for a standards committee and I felt the introduction of the report I wrote didn't really justify why we'd written the report and the other people on the committee told me that actually I'd written a very good introduction. This book explores the ethical terrain you're navigating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_48_Laws_of_Power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_48_Laws_of_Power and with some hesitation I'd also recommend the next book that author wrote.
- half0wl 4y ago> To what degree should one lie about experience when applying for jobs? None? I don't think you should or have to lie. You have to learn how to market and promote yourself. Phrasing your highlight reels in a way that makes you shine doesn't necessitate lying. Anything you put in your resume/cv is fair game for interviews. If you claim FORTRAN in your skillset, you should expect to be grilled on it.