4 ms·

> staunchly avoided condemning the publicly stated highly racist views of the President of Israel after I raised them. This is irrelevant to the question being

> staunchly avoided condemning the publicly stated highly racist views of the President of Israel after I raised them. This is irrelevant to the question being discussed which is whether anti-Zionism is correlated with anti-semitism. However, I did look up his statements now and yes it appears he is indeed some kind of racist. That's still besides the point. > very clear anti-zionism correlation to committed anti-racism Yes, that correlation also exists. That's not at all mutually exclusive with a correlation between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism. As I described above, anti-Zionism is a wide tent with some racist genocidal crackpot conspiracy theorist ethnoreligious nationalists mixed together with true egalitarian anti-racist leftists and liberals. > One or two nazis holding up a palestinian flag (not somethingk they tend to do a lot) doesnt change that. Dishonestly euphemistic and you know it.

pydry 4y ago
>This is irrelevant to the question being discussed It's completely relevant. The point being that being anti zionist is a necessary precondition of being consistently antiracist. I will condemn clear and open anti semitism. I have no problem with that. I cant in good faith condemn anti semitism and not condemn Isaac Herzog's comments. Anti semitism is racism. Isaac made some very clear and very obvious racist remarks as the head of the zionist state too. To be consistently antiracist I have to condemn those too, as well as the sheer overwhelming levels of racism inherent in the state he leads. It is also a natural consequence of holding these views that you will, inevitably be accused of antisemitism. The correlation on that is nearly 100% as far as I can see - it happened to me, it happened to all of my friends, it happened to everyone involved in BDS. Consistent antiracism guarantees that you will falsely be accused of antisemitism...by racists. >As I described above, anti-Zionism is a wide tent with some racist genocidal crackpot conspiracy theorist And pro zionism is a wide tent with a self declared racist at the very top whose racism is endorsed, whether implicitly or explicitly by damn near everybody in the tent. I keep asking pro zionists and zionist apologists to prove themselves exceptions to this rule and they consistently refuse - thereby implicitly placing themselves in the "pro racism" group, i suppose. >Dishonestly euphemistic and you know it. No, not really. I tend to view the president of a cause to be a bit more representative of it than I do a few crackpots who hold up a flag. I similarly dont view Baruch Goldstein as representative of all zionists. Unlike most other people who conflate antisemitism and antizionism, I dont just have a preferred flavor of racism.
- hackerlight 4y ago
  > It's completely relevant. The point being that being anti zionist is a necessary precondition of being consistently antiracist. Anti-Zionism being a precondition to antiracism doesn't imply that all anti-Zionists are antiracists. That's fallacious. As I've said, and provided examples for, anti-Zionists contain both principled antiracists and nationalist racist genocidal antisemitic crackpots. It's a union of two distinct sets of people. Anti-Zionism ~= {principled and commendable anti-racists}U{antisemitic neo-nazis and Arab-Muslim ethoreligious nationalists}. The first set of people arrive at their anti-Zionism because of egalitarian principles, the latter are just a broken clock that happens to align with antiracists on this one issue but otherwise they get their views from hatred and ethnonationalism. It's not hard to understand.

pydry 4y ago

>This is irrelevant to the question being discussed It's completely relevant. The point being that being anti zionist is a necessary precondition of being consistently antiracist. I will condemn clear and open anti semitism. I have no problem with that. I cant in good faith condemn anti semitism and not condemn Isaac Herzog's comments. Anti semitism is racism. Isaac made some very clear and very obvious racist remarks as the head of the zionist state too. To be consistently antiracist I have to condemn those too, as well as the sheer overwhelming levels of racism inherent in the state he leads. It is also a natural consequence of holding these views that you will, inevitably be accused of antisemitism. The correlation on that is nearly 100% as far as I can see - it happened to me, it happened to all of my friends, it happened to everyone involved in BDS. Consistent antiracism guarantees that you will falsely be accused of antisemitism...by racists. >As I described above, anti-Zionism is a wide tent with some racist genocidal crackpot conspiracy theorist And pro zionism is a wide tent with a self declared racist at the very top whose racism is endorsed, whether implicitly or explicitly by damn near everybody in the tent. I keep asking pro zionists and zionist apologists to prove themselves exceptions to this rule and they consistently refuse - thereby implicitly placing themselves in the "pro racism" group, i suppose. >Dishonestly euphemistic and you know it. No, not really. I tend to view the president of a cause to be a bit more representative of it than I do a few crackpots who hold up a flag. I similarly dont view Baruch Goldstein as representative of all zionists. Unlike most other people who conflate antisemitism and antizionism, I dont just have a preferred flavor of racism.

hackerlight 4y ago
> It's completely relevant. The point being that being anti zionist is a necessary precondition of being consistently antiracist. Anti-Zionism being a precondition to antiracism doesn't imply that all anti-Zionists are antiracists. That's fallacious. As I've said, and provided examples for, anti-Zionists contain both principled antiracists and nationalist racist genocidal antisemitic crackpots. It's a union of two distinct sets of people. Anti-Zionism ~= {principled and commendable anti-racists}U{antisemitic neo-nazis and Arab-Muslim ethoreligious nationalists}. The first set of people arrive at their anti-Zionism because of egalitarian principles, the latter are just a broken clock that happens to align with antiracists on this one issue but otherwise they get their views from hatred and ethnonationalism. It's not hard to understand.