5 ms·

Things are looking pretty brutal in southern Sweden for the coming winter. I have some acquaintances who are on thermal and who usually get pretty steep bills i

by zppln 4y ago

Things are looking pretty brutal in southern Sweden for the coming winter. I have some acquaintances who are on thermal and who usually get pretty steep bills in December and January and they ain't just looking at a 7% increase that's for sure...

michaelbrooks 4y ago
In the UK, we had a 57% increase in energy bills from July, and we're now looking at another 80% increase from October which is terrifying for a lot of us.
- zasdffaa 4y ago
  In the UK we have standing charges on meters. These are fixed charges regardless of how much energy you use. You pay extra on top for your energy. I use very, very little gas. Currently my standing charge is about 4 times the cost of the (tiny amount of) gas I use, at least. To avoid the gas standing charge I'd have to remove the meter, physically. Not my property, can't do it. So I have to pay. Funny system.
  - jhoechtl 4y ago
    I think this system is commonplace. In Austria to say at least.
  - LetMeInNowMate 4y ago
    > Not my property, can't do it. If you are renting, you are perfectly entitled to change energy suppliers and/or have meters removed or upgraded. Your landlord has no say in it. (For one thing, the meter belongs to the energy company!). The only exception to this is if you are renting a room in a HMO that uses a common energy supply for all rooms, or if you landlord pays your energy bills. https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/utility_bills_and_your_rights https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_rentin...
- InCityDreams 4y ago
  Indoor bicycles are about £100 from decathlon. /serious. I can see a lot of financial problems ahead but equally(?) a lot of people not just sitting on their arses doing sfa. Shopping centres will benefit from extra traffic, but may not necessarily get the cash. People may just wander... I'm working on my W22 strategies now. More home (low key 90/10) exercise, more outside walks, family get togethers (share a house), stodgy energy-food, more blankets, bed early.....
  - occz 4y ago
    Thermal clothing is probably going to be your highest ROI if you're unironically looking for methods to keep warm this winter while spending less.
gwbas1c 4y ago
What's "on thermal?" Geothermal? Why would that go up (significantly)? Seems like geothermal would be pretty resistant? IE, the cost to run things like pumps should still be a fraction of the cost to heat using gas.
- zppln 4y ago
  From what I've understood once you go below a certain temperature you can no longer pump and start heating using electricity instead. Which gets expensive as fuck. I have several friends in this situation. Sounds like something you'd think about in a country that gets cold every winter but I don't know. One explanation I've heard is that they didn't use to drill as deep as they do nowadays (I think most of my friends had their installed in the 90's) or something.
  - gwbas1c 4y ago
    Well, what does "on thermal" mean? I interpret it as going into geothermal sources of heat, where the groundwater is already heated. (IE, the groundwater is something like 100+ degrees F, or 45+ degrees C.) As opposed to heat pumps, which you described.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - tmikaeld 4y ago
    A friend drilled a new hole 5 years ago with a modern pump attached, with water carrier, still draws more power than we do for our 2 air pumps (cheap variants). Update: He drilled 160 meters into mountain.
tmikaeld 4y ago
I'm in region 4, normally we have around 1600KwH in the worst winter month (small house, 2 air pumps). If prices rise 5x as is expected, we're looking at ~8000€ for a single month. (1€/KwH x 5)
- not-my-account 4y ago
  Perhaps a dumb question, but do many houses have chimneys? Would burning wood ameliorate the problem?
  - tmikaeld 4y ago
    Mostly older houses do (< 50s), and yes, wood is the most cost effective. This house is > 70s, doesn't have a chimney, but we're considering installing a cast-iron wood burner in the house center for this winter.
  - sorenjan 4y ago
    Firewood was in short supply and hard to find this winter and spring because of high power prices, imagine what will happen this coming winter with prices 5X-10X.
    - tmikaeld 4y ago
      It's still a country with a lot of wood, finding a farmer willing to sell some even at the worst of times, are easier than any alternative.
      - sorenjan 4y ago
        There's sellers that are already out of stock. Firewood needs to dry for months before use, and like everything else when there's high demand there will be high prices. https://www.aftonbladet.se/minekonomi/a/66p5LQ/ved-rusning-leder-till-stor-brist https://www.aftonbladet.se/minekonomi/a/66p5LQ/ved-rusning-l...
        4y ago

by zppln 4y ago

michaelbrooks 4y ago

In the UK, we had a 57% increase in energy bills from July, and we're now looking at another 80% increase from October which is terrifying for a lot of us.

zasdffaa 4y ago
In the UK we have standing charges on meters. These are fixed charges regardless of how much energy you use. You pay extra on top for your energy. I use very, very little gas. Currently my standing charge is about 4 times the cost of the (tiny amount of) gas I use, at least. To avoid the gas standing charge I'd have to remove the meter, physically. Not my property, can't do it. So I have to pay. Funny system.
- jhoechtl 4y ago
  I think this system is commonplace. In Austria to say at least.
- LetMeInNowMate 4y ago
  > Not my property, can't do it. If you are renting, you are perfectly entitled to change energy suppliers and/or have meters removed or upgraded. Your landlord has no say in it. (For one thing, the meter belongs to the energy company!). The only exception to this is if you are renting a room in a HMO that uses a common energy supply for all rooms, or if you landlord pays your energy bills. https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/utility_bills_and_your_rights https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_rentin...
InCityDreams 4y ago
Indoor bicycles are about £100 from decathlon. /serious. I can see a lot of financial problems ahead but equally(?) a lot of people not just sitting on their arses doing sfa. Shopping centres will benefit from extra traffic, but may not necessarily get the cash. People may just wander... I'm working on my W22 strategies now. More home (low key 90/10) exercise, more outside walks, family get togethers (share a house), stodgy energy-food, more blankets, bed early.....
- occz 4y ago
  Thermal clothing is probably going to be your highest ROI if you're unironically looking for methods to keep warm this winter while spending less.

gwbas1c 4y ago

What's "on thermal?" Geothermal? Why would that go up (significantly)? Seems like geothermal would be pretty resistant? IE, the cost to run things like pumps should still be a fraction of the cost to heat using gas.

zppln 4y ago
From what I've understood once you go below a certain temperature you can no longer pump and start heating using electricity instead. Which gets expensive as fuck. I have several friends in this situation. Sounds like something you'd think about in a country that gets cold every winter but I don't know. One explanation I've heard is that they didn't use to drill as deep as they do nowadays (I think most of my friends had their installed in the 90's) or something.
- gwbas1c 4y ago
  Well, what does "on thermal" mean? I interpret it as going into geothermal sources of heat, where the groundwater is already heated. (IE, the groundwater is something like 100+ degrees F, or 45+ degrees C.) As opposed to heat pumps, which you described.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- tmikaeld 4y ago
  A friend drilled a new hole 5 years ago with a modern pump attached, with water carrier, still draws more power than we do for our 2 air pumps (cheap variants). Update: He drilled 160 meters into mountain.

tmikaeld 4y ago

I'm in region 4, normally we have around 1600KwH in the worst winter month (small house, 2 air pumps). If prices rise 5x as is expected, we're looking at ~8000€ for a single month. (1€/KwH x 5)

not-my-account 4y ago
Perhaps a dumb question, but do many houses have chimneys? Would burning wood ameliorate the problem?
- tmikaeld 4y ago
  Mostly older houses do (< 50s), and yes, wood is the most cost effective. This house is > 70s, doesn't have a chimney, but we're considering installing a cast-iron wood burner in the house center for this winter.
- sorenjan 4y ago
  Firewood was in short supply and hard to find this winter and spring because of high power prices, imagine what will happen this coming winter with prices 5X-10X.
  - tmikaeld 4y ago
    It's still a country with a lot of wood, finding a farmer willing to sell some even at the worst of times, are easier than any alternative.
    - sorenjan 4y ago
      There's sellers that are already out of stock. Firewood needs to dry for months before use, and like everything else when there's high demand there will be high prices. https://www.aftonbladet.se/minekonomi/a/66p5LQ/ved-rusning-leder-till-stor-brist https://www.aftonbladet.se/minekonomi/a/66p5LQ/ved-rusning-l...
      - 4y ago