5 ms·

More optimistically, they would buy solar+storage which would mitigate the problem

by travisporter 4y ago

EricE 4y ago
You have cost effective storage? Why are you being stingy with it - share already!
- dangrossman 4y ago
  Yes, the electric car in my driveway, and in millions of Californians' driveways. My car's battery is as big as 6 Tesla Powerwalls and can power a house for days.
  - kkfx 4y ago
    Really? So far I see no car's ready integrated with home p.v., some experiments do exists (Toyota) and some LIMITED commercial cars (Ford F150) offer something, but nothing is really ready. I have a self-made p.v. with storage, I dream to being able just to integrate car's inverter power demand with p.v. inverter available capacity: most cars do not even offer MQTT/ModBUS communications to slowly regulate power demands. Just to regulate my hot water heater (a modern Daikin heat-pump) depending on p.v. available energy I have to craft some absurd home-assistant automation because NO ONE at Daikin really know what does it means "a solar-ready heat-pump" and no one who produce p.v. inverters really think that perhaps it's a good idea offering a good API to regulate devices in the house for maximum self-consumption. Potentially we can improve self-consumption by more than 10% with just let's say +10USD per high-power device, no such thing exists on sale. The best you can get are "smart switches" who power-on or off devices with crappy automation and power routers with a smart meter if you have to limit injection to the grid. Potentially cars can be used coupled with a fixed p.v. system and a small storage (for when you are not at home, but still need power for fridge and co) with a canbus open and universal API. Potentially. I'm curious if even find ONE BEV on sale who do that just with an open API...
    - dangrossman 4y ago
      The ecosystem isn't there yet to just plug a car into the wall and have it power a home. But I've been using my EVs as home battery backups during power outages for 8 years now. I don't have any of that fancy stuff, just a 2000 watt inverter that gets clamped onto the car's 12V battery under the hood, and an extension cord I run into my kitchen to plug in a power strip for the fridge/freezer, TV, wifi router/ONT and laptop charger. The car's DC-DC converter can produce around 3000 watts, but I never approach that as I don't want to damage it. My VW ID.4 theoretically is V2H capable according to the advertising, just waiting for someone to sell a box that plugs into the CCS port to make it happen.
      - kkfx 4y ago
        That's a backup for fridge, but hardly for a home: how about cooking? heating/cooling? BTW the "ecosystem" is not there IMO because no one who design such systems use them, really. I have a modern Daikin hot water system formally "integrated with the solar" etc. It's not integrated AT ALL, people who sell it do not even know how to use it's crappy ModBUS interface and that is designed just to tweak it's functioning based on the current energy price from the grid NOT depending on a p.v. system and that's one of the state-of-art new gears... Essentially IMO no one have ever tried to tackle nor maximum self-consumption nor autonomy. And this is the very first issue. The second issue is that nobody ever try to push standards. They sold crap in a state in the past we would have call "early stage prototype" as a finished product. Given actual prices no real revolution can happen in technical terms.
- falcolas 4y ago
  There's lots of cost effective storage methods (compressed air, compressed CO2, pumped hydro, inertial/iron oxide/lithium ion/sand/hydrogen batteries, and so forth), but the costs are all mostly up front, requiring major investments that aren't happening. Some of them also require non-trivial time to build.
- hedora 4y ago
  These are totally worth it, and are one of the more expensive options on the market: https://enphase.com/homeowners/home-solar-batteries https://enphase.com/homeowners/home-solar-batteries
- travisporter 4y ago
  well no, but parent mentions buying power so presumably it's not required to be cost effective

More optimistically, they would buy solar+storage which would mitigate the problem

EricE 4y ago

You have cost effective storage? Why are you being stingy with it - share already!

dangrossman 4y ago
Yes, the electric car in my driveway, and in millions of Californians' driveways. My car's battery is as big as 6 Tesla Powerwalls and can power a house for days.
- kkfx 4y ago
  Really? So far I see no car's ready integrated with home p.v., some experiments do exists (Toyota) and some LIMITED commercial cars (Ford F150) offer something, but nothing is really ready. I have a self-made p.v. with storage, I dream to being able just to integrate car's inverter power demand with p.v. inverter available capacity: most cars do not even offer MQTT/ModBUS communications to slowly regulate power demands. Just to regulate my hot water heater (a modern Daikin heat-pump) depending on p.v. available energy I have to craft some absurd home-assistant automation because NO ONE at Daikin really know what does it means "a solar-ready heat-pump" and no one who produce p.v. inverters really think that perhaps it's a good idea offering a good API to regulate devices in the house for maximum self-consumption. Potentially we can improve self-consumption by more than 10% with just let's say +10USD per high-power device, no such thing exists on sale. The best you can get are "smart switches" who power-on or off devices with crappy automation and power routers with a smart meter if you have to limit injection to the grid. Potentially cars can be used coupled with a fixed p.v. system and a small storage (for when you are not at home, but still need power for fridge and co) with a canbus open and universal API. Potentially. I'm curious if even find ONE BEV on sale who do that just with an open API...
  - dangrossman 4y ago
    The ecosystem isn't there yet to just plug a car into the wall and have it power a home. But I've been using my EVs as home battery backups during power outages for 8 years now. I don't have any of that fancy stuff, just a 2000 watt inverter that gets clamped onto the car's 12V battery under the hood, and an extension cord I run into my kitchen to plug in a power strip for the fridge/freezer, TV, wifi router/ONT and laptop charger. The car's DC-DC converter can produce around 3000 watts, but I never approach that as I don't want to damage it. My VW ID.4 theoretically is V2H capable according to the advertising, just waiting for someone to sell a box that plugs into the CCS port to make it happen.
    - kkfx 4y ago
      That's a backup for fridge, but hardly for a home: how about cooking? heating/cooling? BTW the "ecosystem" is not there IMO because no one who design such systems use them, really. I have a modern Daikin hot water system formally "integrated with the solar" etc. It's not integrated AT ALL, people who sell it do not even know how to use it's crappy ModBUS interface and that is designed just to tweak it's functioning based on the current energy price from the grid NOT depending on a p.v. system and that's one of the state-of-art new gears... Essentially IMO no one have ever tried to tackle nor maximum self-consumption nor autonomy. And this is the very first issue. The second issue is that nobody ever try to push standards. They sold crap in a state in the past we would have call "early stage prototype" as a finished product. Given actual prices no real revolution can happen in technical terms.
falcolas 4y ago
There's lots of cost effective storage methods (compressed air, compressed CO2, pumped hydro, inertial/iron oxide/lithium ion/sand/hydrogen batteries, and so forth), but the costs are all mostly up front, requiring major investments that aren't happening. Some of them also require non-trivial time to build.
hedora 4y ago
These are totally worth it, and are one of the more expensive options on the market: https://enphase.com/homeowners/home-solar-batteries https://enphase.com/homeowners/home-solar-batteries
travisporter 4y ago
well no, but parent mentions buying power so presumably it's not required to be cost effective