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California is such a depressing thing. You have some of the most beautiful land in earth (the California coast is uniquely beautiful imo) you had some of the s

California is such a depressing thing. You have some of the most beautiful land in earth (the California coast is uniquely beautiful imo) you had some of the smartest people in earth in the highest concentration, some of the best weather in earth, the best companies, the best most innovative industries. Everything. And they just…squandered it. In like 15 years. At some point does California look in the mirror and wonder if just maybe it wasnt those darn republicans after all? What’s infuriating is watching Californian refugees flee the disaster that their policies created and then try to implement them those same policies in their new host states. I’m already seeing this happen in my state.

agent281 4y ago
Why do you say the last 15 years? We had the Enron blackouts 20 years ago that were so bad they effectively forced the recall of the governor. The grid has had its issues for a while.
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  The power grid is not Californias only current humanitarian disaster.
edmcnulty101 4y ago
It's interesting to watch it decline. And to see the lessons learned.
umeshunni 4y ago
Don't worry. They're still blaming the Reagan governorship for all their problems.
- hollywood_court 4y ago
  I’m not sure how the Reagan governorship is effecting California to this day, but I know that the US still hasn’t recovered from his presidency.
  - kagakuninja 4y ago
    Ironically it was Reagan who started the gun control movement in California, because the Black Panthers decided to exercise their constitutional rights to openly carry guns.
    - hollywood_court 4y ago
      Exactly. Firearms are my main hobby other than woodworking, but I always chuckle whenever I see a 2A advocate wearing one of those Reagan shirts that have become so popular. And who knows how many thousands of lives have been ruined as a result of his drug policies.
encryptluks2 4y ago
California was a red state up until what like 8 years ago. According to your timeline it was those darn republicans after all.
- refurb 4y ago
  California has been a blue state (as per Presidential votes) since the 80's. You're only off by 30 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_elections_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_ele...
  - kagakuninja 4y ago
    While true, California also has the infamous Proposition 13, designed in the 70s by conservatives to starve the state of tax income. One of its provisions is that tax increases require a 2/3 supermajority on any tax increases enacted legislature. This effectively gave Republicans a veto on most sources of revenue. This led to chronic budget deficits, which would often be papered over by issuing bonds, and a variety of "fees". Such as the hated auto registration fee, which was one of the grievances during the recall of Democratic governor Gray Davis. Eventually we decided we had enough of Republicans, and Democrats gained a super majority in state congress. Now the state is running a surplus. I'm not claiming they have solved our problems, but at least we have money to build things again.
    - EricE 4y ago
      You do know that governments can also decrease their spending - and you can decrease from doing things other than just cutting services (how about fraud, waste, abuse, redundancies, etc.?) The only answer isn't to tax more?
    - EricE 4y ago
      As for the budget "surplus" - CA has retired all its debt too? Now that really is good news! lol - surplus with a debt is just accounting fun and games. Keep deluding yourselves; I'm sure nothing bad - like not having enough power - will come from it.
ThePadawan 4y ago
As a naive idiot not born in the US who has seen the weirdest separatist movements in Europe (not only a Bavarian one, a Franconian one [Franconia being a historical kingdom, now a collection of counties within Bavaria]), I'm constantly amazed the US doesn't have more separatist movements. Texas and California strike me as the sorts of states to one day just say "You know, fuck all y'all".
- ceeplusplus 4y ago
  Texas and California are both extremely powerful in national politics. Neither has an incentive to give that influence up just to play at being a separatist.
- kagakuninja 4y ago
  We had a separatist movement, it was called the Civil War, and did not end well for the separatists. US states do not have any legal mechanism to exit the union, although Texas claims it has that right. We do have a lot of nut jobs, particularly in low population rural states like Idaho, and they have ideas. One idea is to split off parts of California and Oregon into the state of Jefferson. Another was to split California into 6 states. All of these schemes just happen to give conservatives more power in the Senate, and are unlikely to ever happen.
refurb 4y ago
It reminds me quite a lot of New Jersey. You wouldn't know it now, but New Jersey used to be an industrial powerhouse. Now it's just known for it's corruption, high taxes, bureaucracy, decaying infrastructure and dying cities. I have no idea idea if California's peak is already in the past, but the trend isn't looking great. When people start taking for granted, that's when they kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
kelp 4y ago
The issues have certainly gotten worse over the past 15 years. A lot of factors combined to get us to the current state, and some were set in motion long long ago. Just some examples: Prop 13[1] passed in 1978: * requires a 2/3s majority in both chambers to raise tax rates * caps increases on property taxes to sub-inflation rates, incentivizes people to stay in their homes forever to keep their cheap rate * forces the state to rely more and more on income taxes, which are very unstable, so we see boom and bust years. CA will be coming up on a bust year now. * Shields home voters from any downside of their property value going up (higher tax rates you'd see in other states), so more incentive to NIMBY any new development in your neighborhood. * cities can get more tax revenue from commercial properties than residential so they are incentivized to build office buildings and not housing (see how well that's working out for San Francisco now) Late 70s downzoning: * Across California many cities downzoned, severely limiting the height, density and types of housing that could be built. * I read the environmental impact report for the late 70s downzone of San Francisco and it specifically called out how this would increase housing costs unless the city significantly increased development in the industrial parts of the city. That didn't really happen, so here we are. The proposition system in general * We vote on absolutely crazy things that I think should be left to legislators or bureaucrats. One thing that stood out to me as particularly weird was 2018 Prop 8[2] * This history of this system was to limit the power of the rail roads who'd bought many of the politicians, so it was a counter to a corrupt legislature. But then someone "innovated" and started paying people to collect signatures to get something on the ballot, and now it's used for all sorts of confusing and niche purposes. In recent years we've been seeing actual progress on some of the housing related policy. I think organizations like CA YIMBY[3] get a ton of credit for that. But I'm not sure what we'll do about Prop 13 or the proposition system in general. Prop 13 in general is kind of a 3rd rail in CA politics. But there has been some attempts to chip away at the edges that got close. 2020 Prop 15[4] came close to passing and would have addressed some of the issues in Prop 13 for commercial properties. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13 [2] https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_8,_Limits_on_Dialysis_Clinics'_Revenue_and_Required_Refunds_Initiative_(2018) https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_8,_Limits_on_... [3] https://cayimby.org https://cayimby.org [4] https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_15,_Tax_on_Commercial_and_Industrial_Properties_for_Education_and_Local_Government_Funding_Initiative_(2020) https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_15,_Tax_on_Co...

agent281 4y ago

Why do you say the last 15 years? We had the Enron blackouts 20 years ago that were so bad they effectively forced the recall of the governor. The grid has had its issues for a while.

thepasswordis 4y ago
The power grid is not Californias only current humanitarian disaster.

edmcnulty101 4y ago

It's interesting to watch it decline. And to see the lessons learned.

umeshunni 4y ago

Don't worry. They're still blaming the Reagan governorship for all their problems.

hollywood_court 4y ago
I’m not sure how the Reagan governorship is effecting California to this day, but I know that the US still hasn’t recovered from his presidency.
- kagakuninja 4y ago
  Ironically it was Reagan who started the gun control movement in California, because the Black Panthers decided to exercise their constitutional rights to openly carry guns.
  - hollywood_court 4y ago
    Exactly. Firearms are my main hobby other than woodworking, but I always chuckle whenever I see a 2A advocate wearing one of those Reagan shirts that have become so popular. And who knows how many thousands of lives have been ruined as a result of his drug policies.

encryptluks2 4y ago

California was a red state up until what like 8 years ago. According to your timeline it was those darn republicans after all.

refurb 4y ago
California has been a blue state (as per Presidential votes) since the 80's. You're only off by 30 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_elections_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_ele...
- kagakuninja 4y ago
  While true, California also has the infamous Proposition 13, designed in the 70s by conservatives to starve the state of tax income. One of its provisions is that tax increases require a 2/3 supermajority on any tax increases enacted legislature. This effectively gave Republicans a veto on most sources of revenue. This led to chronic budget deficits, which would often be papered over by issuing bonds, and a variety of "fees". Such as the hated auto registration fee, which was one of the grievances during the recall of Democratic governor Gray Davis. Eventually we decided we had enough of Republicans, and Democrats gained a super majority in state congress. Now the state is running a surplus. I'm not claiming they have solved our problems, but at least we have money to build things again.
  - EricE 4y ago
    You do know that governments can also decrease their spending - and you can decrease from doing things other than just cutting services (how about fraud, waste, abuse, redundancies, etc.?) The only answer isn't to tax more?
  - EricE 4y ago
    As for the budget "surplus" - CA has retired all its debt too? Now that really is good news! lol - surplus with a debt is just accounting fun and games. Keep deluding yourselves; I'm sure nothing bad - like not having enough power - will come from it.

ThePadawan 4y ago

As a naive idiot not born in the US who has seen the weirdest separatist movements in Europe (not only a Bavarian one, a Franconian one [Franconia being a historical kingdom, now a collection of counties within Bavaria]), I'm constantly amazed the US doesn't have more separatist movements. Texas and California strike me as the sorts of states to one day just say "You know, fuck all y'all".

ceeplusplus 4y ago
Texas and California are both extremely powerful in national politics. Neither has an incentive to give that influence up just to play at being a separatist.
kagakuninja 4y ago
We had a separatist movement, it was called the Civil War, and did not end well for the separatists. US states do not have any legal mechanism to exit the union, although Texas claims it has that right. We do have a lot of nut jobs, particularly in low population rural states like Idaho, and they have ideas. One idea is to split off parts of California and Oregon into the state of Jefferson. Another was to split California into 6 states. All of these schemes just happen to give conservatives more power in the Senate, and are unlikely to ever happen.

refurb 4y ago

It reminds me quite a lot of New Jersey. You wouldn't know it now, but New Jersey used to be an industrial powerhouse. Now it's just known for it's corruption, high taxes, bureaucracy, decaying infrastructure and dying cities. I have no idea idea if California's peak is already in the past, but the trend isn't looking great. When people start taking for granted, that's when they kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

kelp 4y ago

The issues have certainly gotten worse over the past 15 years. A lot of factors combined to get us to the current state, and some were set in motion long long ago. Just some examples: Prop 13[1] passed in 1978: * requires a 2/3s majority in both chambers to raise tax rates * caps increases on property taxes to sub-inflation rates, incentivizes people to stay in their homes forever to keep their cheap rate * forces the state to rely more and more on income taxes, which are very unstable, so we see boom and bust years. CA will be coming up on a bust year now. * Shields home voters from any downside of their property value going up (higher tax rates you'd see in other states), so more incentive to NIMBY any new development in your neighborhood. * cities can get more tax revenue from commercial properties than residential so they are incentivized to build office buildings and not housing (see how well that's working out for San Francisco now) Late 70s downzoning: * Across California many cities downzoned, severely limiting the height, density and types of housing that could be built. * I read the environmental impact report for the late 70s downzone of San Francisco and it specifically called out how this would increase housing costs unless the city significantly increased development in the industrial parts of the city. That didn't really happen, so here we are. The proposition system in general * We vote on absolutely crazy things that I think should be left to legislators or bureaucrats. One thing that stood out to me as particularly weird was 2018 Prop 8[2] * This history of this system was to limit the power of the rail roads who'd bought many of the politicians, so it was a counter to a corrupt legislature. But then someone "innovated" and started paying people to collect signatures to get something on the ballot, and now it's used for all sorts of confusing and niche purposes. In recent years we've been seeing actual progress on some of the housing related policy. I think organizations like CA YIMBY[3] get a ton of credit for that. But I'm not sure what we'll do about Prop 13 or the proposition system in general. Prop 13 in general is kind of a 3rd rail in CA politics. But there has been some attempts to chip away at the edges that got close. 2020 Prop 15[4] came close to passing and would have addressed some of the issues in Prop 13 for commercial properties. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13 [2] https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_8,_Limits_on_Dialysis_Clinics'_Revenue_and_Required_Refunds_Initiative_(2018) https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_8,_Limits_on_... [3] https://cayimby.org https://cayimby.org [4] https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_15,_Tax_on_Commercial_and_Industrial_Properties_for_Education_and_Local_Government_Funding_Initiative_(2020) https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_15,_Tax_on_Co...