5 ms·

Honestly, if you mine only the dark side of the moon, people will never even notice. It's not like we are destroying any ecological niche, and the volume you re

Honestly, if you mine only the dark side of the moon, people will never even notice. It's not like we are destroying any ecological niche, and the volume you remove is unlikely to be enough to influence moon gravity. I think the dangerous part is political: who get the wealth out of the moon? That's going to be a heated debate.

samatman 4y ago
It's going to be the people who extract the resources though. Heated debates don't have a lot of bearing on this.
- gunshai 4y ago
  I think the poster is eluding to a nation's claim or stake for the land.
  - mikepurvis 4y ago
    In the future, if you care, the word you want here is alluding: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/elude-vs-allude-difference https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/elude-vs-allud...
    - gunshai 4y ago
      Hah one of those things you always "know" but just brain fart on. I really enjoy these merriam blogs. They had one about "nonplussed" which gave me a great laugh considering how much that word is miss used.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    Why is this any different? If China goes to the moon to mine heavy metals - the international community can either get together and sanction China (they won't) - or accept that China's doing it. If the US does it - the same thing will happen. I can't really imagine anyone else doing it - but then they have a little less global importance and smaller guns - so maybe there would be sanctions to stop it.
    - mattmaroon 4y ago
      One would almost have to achieve global importance and big guns before moon mining is within reach. Russia would be more likely than China probably given their level of spacefaring ability right?
      - njarboe 4y ago
        It gets almost no press but China has a very active space industry and is quickly advancing its space technology. Russia's space technology has not advanced much since the 1960's. China has built its own space station in the last few years, did a moon sample return recently (first rocks back from the moon since the 1970's), and has companies working on making re-usable rockets.
      - zardo 4y ago
        Russia's space fairing capability has been holding steady (if not declining). China has been making steady progress at expanding capability. But either way, no one is any where near economically viable lunar mining.
  - cortesoft 4y ago
    That isn’t going to be an issue until there are competing stakes.
onion2k 4y ago
Honestly, if you mine only the dark side of the moon, people will never even notice. They might notice the rockets going back and forth though.
Victerius 4y ago
2140: U.S., China on verge of war over Moon riches. 'CNN - The Chinese government says its patience is running out over a lack of progress in bilateral negotiations with the United States over the sharing of Lunar mineral resources in Sector 4. The U.S. government claims that it legally acquired the mineral rights to the area after being the first nation to activate a fission reactor within the perimeter. The Chinese government, on the other hand, claims to be the rightful owner of the mineral rights since the mineral discovery by the lunar probe Xi Jinping IV. Forces from 45th Marines Regiment, the 10th Space Force, the 3rd Space Infantry Division, and the 8th Space Force are on an elevated readiness level in Sector 4. These forces number approximately 24,000 troops. The People's Liberation Space Army has approximately 13,000 troops on the Moon, with reinforcements on the way, according to a press release by the Chinese State Council. Sector 4 is currently occupied by SpaceX Mining Corporation and the U.S. military forces.' 'Sector 4 contains the richest mineral deposits known to exist on the Moon. Its economic value has been estimated at $634 trillion, and its Helium-3 deposits are a critical input of the manufacturing of quantum conductors, which power everything from personal hovercraft, holo-devices, house appliances, toothbrushes, and personal communication devices and consumer electronics.' 'The United Nations has appealed to both countries to try to keep diplomatic channels open, but both governments have so far ignored its resolutions. In a press conference at the New White House in Princeton, NJ, President Bill Gates III said all options remained on the table. When pressed about whether these options included the deployment of Cordium weapons and neutron bombs against Chinese lunar forces or military operations in the Earth Theater of Operations, President Gates declined to answer.'
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  +1! Btw, have you seen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_Is_the_News https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_Is_the_News from 1982? :-)
VoodooJuJu 4y ago
This is the kind of thinking that yields DDT, PFAS, Mao's sparrow famine, dying coral reefs, etc. Natural systems are extremely complex and intertwined in ways that cannot be comprehended in the slightest. The nearsightedness and expediency of the modern engineer is criminal and should be met with the highest level of justice, his ideations with caution and skepticism. What's disturbing is that skepticism is taboo. The move fast, break things, disrupt everything ethos is considered noble and desirable. Skeptics are "negative" and "holding us back". They're luddite deplorables who want us to remain in the stone age. We are living with unprecedented abundance. We don't need to take desperate and risky actions because we are not living in desperate times. We don't need to mine the moon. We need to slow down, take stock, and reap what we've already sown.
- jerf 4y ago
  Sorry, what "natural system" exactly are you talking about? The moon doesn't have one in the sense you mean. I notice a lot of people operate on the unexamined assumption that there's life everywhere. This is a decent assumption for the Earth. It does not hold in space. There is no "environment" to mess up on the moon. It is already a radiation hellscape with no air, no water, and no life. It can't be turned into an ecological disaster, it already is one, of a scope beyond anything you can find on Earth. If you literally dumped a million tons of the worst radioactive waste on the moon, it would would not noticeably affect its characteristics. If you value the ecosystems of Earth, get as much industry off of it as possible, into places where there is no "environment" to mess up.
  - chucksta 4y ago
    I dunno, I'd say its effect on earth's tide is a pretty "natural system". Seems odd you can assert such certainty of not having unintended consequences and miss that
    - rbanffy 4y ago
      Do you have any idea how much material you'd need to remove from the Moon to change its mass enough to get a measurable effect on tides?

samatman 4y ago

It's going to be the people who extract the resources though. Heated debates don't have a lot of bearing on this.

gunshai 4y ago
I think the poster is eluding to a nation's claim or stake for the land.
- mikepurvis 4y ago
  In the future, if you care, the word you want here is alluding: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/elude-vs-allude-difference https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/elude-vs-allud...
  - gunshai 4y ago
    Hah one of those things you always "know" but just brain fart on. I really enjoy these merriam blogs. They had one about "nonplussed" which gave me a great laugh considering how much that word is miss used.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  Why is this any different? If China goes to the moon to mine heavy metals - the international community can either get together and sanction China (they won't) - or accept that China's doing it. If the US does it - the same thing will happen. I can't really imagine anyone else doing it - but then they have a little less global importance and smaller guns - so maybe there would be sanctions to stop it.
  - mattmaroon 4y ago
    One would almost have to achieve global importance and big guns before moon mining is within reach. Russia would be more likely than China probably given their level of spacefaring ability right?
    - njarboe 4y ago
      It gets almost no press but China has a very active space industry and is quickly advancing its space technology. Russia's space technology has not advanced much since the 1960's. China has built its own space station in the last few years, did a moon sample return recently (first rocks back from the moon since the 1970's), and has companies working on making re-usable rockets.
    - zardo 4y ago
      Russia's space fairing capability has been holding steady (if not declining). China has been making steady progress at expanding capability. But either way, no one is any where near economically viable lunar mining.
- cortesoft 4y ago
  That isn’t going to be an issue until there are competing stakes.

onion2k 4y ago

Honestly, if you mine only the dark side of the moon, people will never even notice. They might notice the rockets going back and forth though.

Victerius 4y ago

2140: U.S., China on verge of war over Moon riches. 'CNN - The Chinese government says its patience is running out over a lack of progress in bilateral negotiations with the United States over the sharing of Lunar mineral resources in Sector 4. The U.S. government claims that it legally acquired the mineral rights to the area after being the first nation to activate a fission reactor within the perimeter. The Chinese government, on the other hand, claims to be the rightful owner of the mineral rights since the mineral discovery by the lunar probe Xi Jinping IV. Forces from 45th Marines Regiment, the 10th Space Force, the 3rd Space Infantry Division, and the 8th Space Force are on an elevated readiness level in Sector 4. These forces number approximately 24,000 troops. The People's Liberation Space Army has approximately 13,000 troops on the Moon, with reinforcements on the way, according to a press release by the Chinese State Council. Sector 4 is currently occupied by SpaceX Mining Corporation and the U.S. military forces.' 'Sector 4 contains the richest mineral deposits known to exist on the Moon. Its economic value has been estimated at $634 trillion, and its Helium-3 deposits are a critical input of the manufacturing of quantum conductors, which power everything from personal hovercraft, holo-devices, house appliances, toothbrushes, and personal communication devices and consumer electronics.' 'The United Nations has appealed to both countries to try to keep diplomatic channels open, but both governments have so far ignored its resolutions. In a press conference at the New White House in Princeton, NJ, President Bill Gates III said all options remained on the table. When pressed about whether these options included the deployment of Cordium weapons and neutron bombs against Chinese lunar forces or military operations in the Earth Theater of Operations, President Gates declined to answer.'

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
+1! Btw, have you seen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_Is_the_News https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_Is_the_News from 1982? :-)

VoodooJuJu 4y ago

This is the kind of thinking that yields DDT, PFAS, Mao's sparrow famine, dying coral reefs, etc. Natural systems are extremely complex and intertwined in ways that cannot be comprehended in the slightest. The nearsightedness and expediency of the modern engineer is criminal and should be met with the highest level of justice, his ideations with caution and skepticism. What's disturbing is that skepticism is taboo. The move fast, break things, disrupt everything ethos is considered noble and desirable. Skeptics are "negative" and "holding us back". They're luddite deplorables who want us to remain in the stone age. We are living with unprecedented abundance. We don't need to take desperate and risky actions because we are not living in desperate times. We don't need to mine the moon. We need to slow down, take stock, and reap what we've already sown.

jerf 4y ago
Sorry, what "natural system" exactly are you talking about? The moon doesn't have one in the sense you mean. I notice a lot of people operate on the unexamined assumption that there's life everywhere. This is a decent assumption for the Earth. It does not hold in space. There is no "environment" to mess up on the moon. It is already a radiation hellscape with no air, no water, and no life. It can't be turned into an ecological disaster, it already is one, of a scope beyond anything you can find on Earth. If you literally dumped a million tons of the worst radioactive waste on the moon, it would would not noticeably affect its characteristics. If you value the ecosystems of Earth, get as much industry off of it as possible, into places where there is no "environment" to mess up.
- chucksta 4y ago
  I dunno, I'd say its effect on earth's tide is a pretty "natural system". Seems odd you can assert such certainty of not having unintended consequences and miss that
  - rbanffy 4y ago
    Do you have any idea how much material you'd need to remove from the Moon to change its mass enough to get a measurable effect on tides?