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Amusingly, this whole thing is kind of happening because California chose not to buy diesel generators and coal. (Or more accurately, chose not to buy more eff

by mwint 4y ago

Amusingly, this whole thing is kind of happening because California chose not to buy diesel generators and coal. (Or more accurately, chose not to buy more efficient, less polluting versions of those things)

bushbaba 4y ago
Disagree. There’s lots of natural gas generation in the state. The issue is large weather events that is spiking demand much greater than the historical forecast. More EVs and V2G would go a long way to stabilize the grid.
- amluto 4y ago
  V2G seems, as a practical matter, to be extremely dependent on a complex system of intermediaries because no one wants to try having vehicles negotiate directly with the grid operator. I don’t know whether this is likely to work well in the near future.
- mwint 4y ago
  But there’s evidently not enough natgas generation, otherwise we wouldn’t have this issue. There’s not enough because Cali chose not to buy enough (of natgas or something else). The forecasting argument doesn’t hold water for me - California is the state trumpeting about global warming the longest; if this is because of GW and their own projections didn’t consider it, well…
  - bushbaba 4y ago
    50% of in-state generation comes from natural gas: https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2021-total-system-electric-generation https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/califo... I'd call that more than 'enough'.
    - mwint 4y ago
      It's not producing enough power, so it's not "enough". Like if I gave you an ounce of ice cream, and an ounce of steak, and you complain about not having enough food, I don't get to say "but it's 50% steak, that's more than enough".
- EricE 4y ago
  The decades long push for "renewable" energy at all costs has made any consideration of investing in long term base load generation unpalatable in CA - which is why, as others have pointed out, CA hasn't invested in base load generation since the early 2000s. It's utter madness. This is 100% a problem of failed policy, zero planning and living in a fantasy world detached from reality.

by mwint 4y ago

bushbaba 4y ago

Disagree. There’s lots of natural gas generation in the state. The issue is large weather events that is spiking demand much greater than the historical forecast. More EVs and V2G would go a long way to stabilize the grid.

amluto 4y ago
V2G seems, as a practical matter, to be extremely dependent on a complex system of intermediaries because no one wants to try having vehicles negotiate directly with the grid operator. I don’t know whether this is likely to work well in the near future.
mwint 4y ago
But there’s evidently not enough natgas generation, otherwise we wouldn’t have this issue. There’s not enough because Cali chose not to buy enough (of natgas or something else). The forecasting argument doesn’t hold water for me - California is the state trumpeting about global warming the longest; if this is because of GW and their own projections didn’t consider it, well…
- bushbaba 4y ago
  50% of in-state generation comes from natural gas: https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2021-total-system-electric-generation https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/califo... I'd call that more than 'enough'.
  - mwint 4y ago
    It's not producing enough power, so it's not "enough". Like if I gave you an ounce of ice cream, and an ounce of steak, and you complain about not having enough food, I don't get to say "but it's 50% steak, that's more than enough".
EricE 4y ago
The decades long push for "renewable" energy at all costs has made any consideration of investing in long term base load generation unpalatable in CA - which is why, as others have pointed out, CA hasn't invested in base load generation since the early 2000s. It's utter madness. This is 100% a problem of failed policy, zero planning and living in a fantasy world detached from reality.