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And they want to close down their remaining nuclear plants? Wow. I guess with desertification it would be a stretch to find an ample source of cooling water. Do

And they want to close down their remaining nuclear plants? Wow. I guess with desertification it would be a stretch to find an ample source of cooling water. Does this mean they're planning their base loads on natural gas then? Or are they holding out for SMEs that don't need large volumes of water?

BurningFrog 4y ago
The nuclear plant was saved this morning: https://www.npr.org/2022/09/01/1119778975/california-lawmakers-extend-the-life-of-the-states-last-nuclear-power-plant https://www.npr.org/2022/09/01/1119778975/california-lawmake...
sampo 4y ago
In today's news: "California lawmakers extend the life of the state's last nuclear power plant" https://www.npr.org/2022/09/01/1119778975/california-lawmakers-extend-the-life-of-the-states-last-nuclear-power-plant https://www.npr.org/2022/09/01/1119778975/california-lawmake...
bombcar 4y ago
The article itself says Newsom is trying to extend Diablo Canyon by five years. But too many plants have gone offline and not been replaced; generating capacity appears to be flat for ten+ years or more.
Mountain_Skies 4y ago
The Palo Verde nuclear plant is the largest in the US and isn't near a body of water. According to Wikipedia, "The power plant evaporates the water from the treated sewage from several nearby cities and towns to provide the cooling of the steam that it produces." Wonder if that could work for the drier parts of California.
KptMarchewa 4y ago
Their nuclear plant is on the ocean coast. The amount of water in oceans is only expected to increase.
survirtual 4y ago
Speaking if which, can anyone explain to me why cooling water is an issue for nuke plants? In areas with less water, can’t a coolant fluid be used with a compressor and fans powered by the reactor to cool the system down? It would reduce energy yields but my intuition says the energy cost for cooling would be negligible compared to production. Also, can’t coastal water be used for plants near oceans? I just don’t understand how cooling is an issue.
- sbilstein 4y ago
  A large nuclear power plant may use up to 1 billion gallons of water a day and, for this reason, they are often built next to rivers, lakes or oceans to utilise the bodies of water. The water is drawn from these sources and heated to create steam to power the turbine. It then condenses and can be reused in the power generation process. However, it is eventually pumped back into the body of water it originated from, albeit at very high temperatures. This can increase the temperature of the natural water source by up to 30 degrees, posing risks to the aqua life. from this article: https://monarchpartnership.co.uk/nuclear-power-water-consumption/ https://monarchpartnership.co.uk/nuclear-power-water-consump...
  - refurb 4y ago
    The water turned into steam driving turbines doesn't touch the cooling water drawn from rivers. They are closed systems.
    - falcolas 4y ago
      Technically true. But that doesn't stop heat from being transferred between the systems, nor the heat dispersion to the atmosphere or waterways.
- spockz 4y ago
  You can definitely cool. It is just that it will warm up the water so much it will kill the local wildlife.
- 4y ago
epistasis 4y ago
It was never closing down early, it was just ending its life at the end of its license. A long time ago, once-through water cooling systems were banned in new generation, due to damage to water ecosystems. Retrofitting the cooling system was deemed to be in the 2010s, and other resources were planned to replace Diablo Canyon. Since then, heat waves have gotten far far worse due to climate change, and climate change was not taken into account during the planning. Since utility planning is typically at least five years lead time, there has been some adjustment, but not complete adjustment to the new reality we are facing. California also suffered the disaster of the Aliso Canyon natural gas leak, which accelerated the shift away from natural gas generation. It's unlikely that California will ever install SMRs, as they are far too away from deployment to be able to help with any problems. California needs new generation now, not in 2035. Advanced geothermal is being deployed here, and in general I think geothermal has far far more potential on the future grid than SMRs.
- acidburnNSA 4y ago
  Diablo Canyon can easily work for another 20 years, at least. Nuclear plants around the country have been getting license extensions. It makes 10% of the state's electricity, and nuclear fission is a zero-carbon process. I'm glad they fought back against the anti-nuclear industry trying to close it prematurely. Now they should extend it 20 more years.
  - blitzar 4y ago
    No they should build two new reactors on site and eventually retire old and inefficient hardware. The site is toxic anyway - locals dont mind it in 'their back yard', infrastructure is there, skilled workers are there, everything is there. Every existing nuclear site in the world should be thinking about sticking another couple of reactors on site!
    - acidburnNSA 4y ago
      > The site is toxic anyway It's not that toxic. I was just there a few months ago, hiking along the water in the Point Buchon Trail. It was beautiful, with wildlife everywhere. Pure unadulterated coastline teeming with life. At the very end you can catch a glimpse of the nuclear plant https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/in-your-community/local-environment/diablo-canyon-trails/point-buchon-trail.page https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/in-your-community/loca... In my hometown we had an experimental nuclear plant powering my childhood. It shut down in the 1990s and today is total greenfield. Sadly, now my hometown is almost entirely fossil fueled.
richiebful1 4y ago
Diabolo Canyon runs on recycled Pacific Ocean water. That could certainly be a model for future nuclear plants in California. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_Canyon_Power_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_Canyon_Power_Plant
sofixa 4y ago
> I guess with desertification it would be a stretch to find an ample source of cooling water There is an ocean along the California coast. Desalination is something they need anyways, so combo nuclear+desalination plants sound like a plan.

BurningFrog 4y ago

The nuclear plant was saved this morning: https://www.npr.org/2022/09/01/1119778975/california-lawmakers-extend-the-life-of-the-states-last-nuclear-power-plant https://www.npr.org/2022/09/01/1119778975/california-lawmake...

sampo 4y ago

In today's news: "California lawmakers extend the life of the state's last nuclear power plant" https://www.npr.org/2022/09/01/1119778975/california-lawmakers-extend-the-life-of-the-states-last-nuclear-power-plant https://www.npr.org/2022/09/01/1119778975/california-lawmake...

bombcar 4y ago

The article itself says Newsom is trying to extend Diablo Canyon by five years. But too many plants have gone offline and not been replaced; generating capacity appears to be flat for ten+ years or more.

Mountain_Skies 4y ago

The Palo Verde nuclear plant is the largest in the US and isn't near a body of water. According to Wikipedia, "The power plant evaporates the water from the treated sewage from several nearby cities and towns to provide the cooling of the steam that it produces." Wonder if that could work for the drier parts of California.

KptMarchewa 4y ago

Their nuclear plant is on the ocean coast. The amount of water in oceans is only expected to increase.

survirtual 4y ago

Speaking if which, can anyone explain to me why cooling water is an issue for nuke plants? In areas with less water, can’t a coolant fluid be used with a compressor and fans powered by the reactor to cool the system down? It would reduce energy yields but my intuition says the energy cost for cooling would be negligible compared to production. Also, can’t coastal water be used for plants near oceans? I just don’t understand how cooling is an issue.

sbilstein 4y ago
A large nuclear power plant may use up to 1 billion gallons of water a day and, for this reason, they are often built next to rivers, lakes or oceans to utilise the bodies of water. The water is drawn from these sources and heated to create steam to power the turbine. It then condenses and can be reused in the power generation process. However, it is eventually pumped back into the body of water it originated from, albeit at very high temperatures. This can increase the temperature of the natural water source by up to 30 degrees, posing risks to the aqua life. from this article: https://monarchpartnership.co.uk/nuclear-power-water-consumption/ https://monarchpartnership.co.uk/nuclear-power-water-consump...
- refurb 4y ago
  The water turned into steam driving turbines doesn't touch the cooling water drawn from rivers. They are closed systems.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    Technically true. But that doesn't stop heat from being transferred between the systems, nor the heat dispersion to the atmosphere or waterways.
spockz 4y ago
You can definitely cool. It is just that it will warm up the water so much it will kill the local wildlife.
4y ago

epistasis 4y ago

It was never closing down early, it was just ending its life at the end of its license. A long time ago, once-through water cooling systems were banned in new generation, due to damage to water ecosystems. Retrofitting the cooling system was deemed to be in the 2010s, and other resources were planned to replace Diablo Canyon. Since then, heat waves have gotten far far worse due to climate change, and climate change was not taken into account during the planning. Since utility planning is typically at least five years lead time, there has been some adjustment, but not complete adjustment to the new reality we are facing. California also suffered the disaster of the Aliso Canyon natural gas leak, which accelerated the shift away from natural gas generation. It's unlikely that California will ever install SMRs, as they are far too away from deployment to be able to help with any problems. California needs new generation now, not in 2035. Advanced geothermal is being deployed here, and in general I think geothermal has far far more potential on the future grid than SMRs.

acidburnNSA 4y ago
Diablo Canyon can easily work for another 20 years, at least. Nuclear plants around the country have been getting license extensions. It makes 10% of the state's electricity, and nuclear fission is a zero-carbon process. I'm glad they fought back against the anti-nuclear industry trying to close it prematurely. Now they should extend it 20 more years.
- blitzar 4y ago
  No they should build two new reactors on site and eventually retire old and inefficient hardware. The site is toxic anyway - locals dont mind it in 'their back yard', infrastructure is there, skilled workers are there, everything is there. Every existing nuclear site in the world should be thinking about sticking another couple of reactors on site!
  - acidburnNSA 4y ago
    > The site is toxic anyway It's not that toxic. I was just there a few months ago, hiking along the water in the Point Buchon Trail. It was beautiful, with wildlife everywhere. Pure unadulterated coastline teeming with life. At the very end you can catch a glimpse of the nuclear plant https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/in-your-community/local-environment/diablo-canyon-trails/point-buchon-trail.page https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/in-your-community/loca... In my hometown we had an experimental nuclear plant powering my childhood. It shut down in the 1990s and today is total greenfield. Sadly, now my hometown is almost entirely fossil fueled.

richiebful1 4y ago

Diabolo Canyon runs on recycled Pacific Ocean water. That could certainly be a model for future nuclear plants in California. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_Canyon_Power_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_Canyon_Power_Plant

sofixa 4y ago

> I guess with desertification it would be a stretch to find an ample source of cooling water There is an ocean along the California coast. Desalination is something they need anyways, so combo nuclear+desalination plants sound like a plan.