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So... does Qualcomm have an architectural license, or one that only covers pre-designed cores? If they don't have the special ARM license that lets you design

So... does Qualcomm have an architectural license, or one that only covers pre-designed cores? If they don't have the special ARM license that lets you design your own compatible cores, then this case seems like a slam dunk for ARM. However, if they do have that license, then the only objections I can see are either... - Nuvia's license should terminate so that ARM can renegotiate with Qualcomm for whatever fields of endeavor aren't covered by Qualcomm's existing agreement - ARM does not believe architectural licensees should be able to transfer technology amongst one another The former seems reasonable, but Qualcomm already pays a lot of money for licenses in ARM's major markets already. I'm not sure what more they could justify here. The latter would be absolutely insane and toxic to the overall ARM ecosystem.

ksec 4y ago
>Qualcomm have an architectural license? Clearly stated in the case they do. But having a license doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want with it.
- kmeisthax 4y ago
  Right, but I'm struggling to see why ARM would care. Legally speaking the license can say whatever the hell it wants and the courts will just execute it. If ARM specifically wants to silo off architectural licensees from one another then so be it. But... ARM negotiated the cost of their licenses based on the markets the chips would be sold into, with Qualcomm presumably paying a significant premium over Nuvia based on phones being a more established market. There's nothing here that prohibits Qualcomm from building a new chip using exactly the same team they bought, because they already paid buckets of cash for the privilege[0]. The only thing ARM can reasonably enforce is that they do it from scratch, and doing so requires they go and sue their own customers so they can use discovery as their compliance tool. And suing over something that trivial seems... petty? Like, I could see chip design houses looking to RISC-V or something else if ARM gets a reputation for suing on every M&A. [0] For the record, this is exactly the same thing Apple did. They bought a chip design firm and a CPU core design firm and had them build ARM cores and SoCs.
  - snvzz 4y ago
    >[0] For the record, this is exactly the same thing Apple did. They bought a chip design firm and a CPU core design firm and had them build ARM cores and SoCs. That was P.A.Semi, their great chip was PWRficcient (PowerPC ISA). Ironically, most of these people (who were involved in M1) are in Rivos now, a RISC-V startup. Now, the expectation is for Qualcomm to have the engineers from Nuvia (which did ARM cores) make RISC-V cores.

ksec 4y ago

>Qualcomm have an architectural license? Clearly stated in the case they do. But having a license doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want with it.

kmeisthax 4y ago
Right, but I'm struggling to see why ARM would care. Legally speaking the license can say whatever the hell it wants and the courts will just execute it. If ARM specifically wants to silo off architectural licensees from one another then so be it. But... ARM negotiated the cost of their licenses based on the markets the chips would be sold into, with Qualcomm presumably paying a significant premium over Nuvia based on phones being a more established market. There's nothing here that prohibits Qualcomm from building a new chip using exactly the same team they bought, because they already paid buckets of cash for the privilege[0]. The only thing ARM can reasonably enforce is that they do it from scratch, and doing so requires they go and sue their own customers so they can use discovery as their compliance tool. And suing over something that trivial seems... petty? Like, I could see chip design houses looking to RISC-V or something else if ARM gets a reputation for suing on every M&A. [0] For the record, this is exactly the same thing Apple did. They bought a chip design firm and a CPU core design firm and had them build ARM cores and SoCs.
- snvzz 4y ago
  >[0] For the record, this is exactly the same thing Apple did. They bought a chip design firm and a CPU core design firm and had them build ARM cores and SoCs. That was P.A.Semi, their great chip was PWRficcient (PowerPC ISA). Ironically, most of these people (who were involved in M1) are in Rivos now, a RISC-V startup. Now, the expectation is for Qualcomm to have the engineers from Nuvia (which did ARM cores) make RISC-V cores.