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> The guy who beat up a Jew in London screamed "fuck Jews" while he did it > There is close to no overlap between these people and the people who take pains to

> The guy who beat up a Jew in London screamed "fuck Jews" while he did it > There is close to no overlap between these people and the people who take pains to explain for the 15th time to a likely racist skeptic that they dont hate jews it's the state of israel they have a problem with. Yes, those specific anti-Zionists aren't anti-semites. These are the types of anti-Zionists that you'll find in tech circles who are educated, egalitarian minded people that are cognitively capable of separating the crimes of a state and the ethnic group inside it. That doesn't detract from the observation that there's an intersection and correlation between people who are anti-Zionist and people who are anti-semitic. You see this correlation manifest in alt-right neo-Nazi communities, who both hate Israel and hate Jews, go and read Stormfront or 4chan. And you see it manifest among Arab-Muslim nationalists. There isn't a group that hates Jews and don't also hate Israel. Regarding the guy who was screaming "fuck Jews", he was probably motivated to action by what Israel was doing a day before. It didn't happen in a vacuum where his anti-semitism can be cleanly separated from his dislike of Israel. The two are related. It's the same underlying psychology as people who are racist against Muslims because of Al Qaeda or ISIS, or people who are racist against Russians because of Putin, and so on. https://musliminstitute.org/freethinking/culture/sorry-truth-virus-anti-semitism-has-infected-british-muslim-community https://musliminstitute.org/freethinking/culture/sorry-truth...

pydry 4y ago
>Yes, those specific anti-Zionists aren't anti-semites. These are the types of anti-Zionists that you'll find in tech circles who are educated, egalitarian minded people that are cognitively capable of separating the crimes of a state and the ethnic group inside it. Israel hates these people the most. It's not hard to see why. Random people who attack Jews arent a threat - they get condemned and sent to prison quickly. BDS, on the other hand, has a history of successfully taking down apartheid states. >That doesn't detract from the observation that there's an intersection and correlation between people who are anti-Zionist and people who are anti-semitic. It really is curious. Every person I've observed who has tried to make this point has staunchly avoided condemning the publicly stated highly racist views of the President of Israel after I raised them. It's not a correlation. It's literally 100%, even among people who are supposedly egalitarian and educated. This does detract from your observation, Im afraid. There is a very clear anti-zionism correlation to committed anti-racism, and an even higher correlation between being antiracist and those accused of antisemitism who deny it. One or two nazis holding up a palestinian flag (not somethingk they tend to do a lot) doesnt change that.
- hackerlight 4y ago
  > staunchly avoided condemning the publicly stated highly racist views of the President of Israel after I raised them. This is irrelevant to the question being discussed which is whether anti-Zionism is correlated with anti-semitism. However, I did look up his statements now and yes it appears he is indeed some kind of racist. That's still besides the point. > very clear anti-zionism correlation to committed anti-racism Yes, that correlation also exists. That's not at all mutually exclusive with a correlation between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism. As I described above, anti-Zionism is a wide tent with some racist genocidal crackpot conspiracy theorist ethnoreligious nationalists mixed together with true egalitarian anti-racist leftists and liberals. > One or two nazis holding up a palestinian flag (not somethingk they tend to do a lot) doesnt change that. Dishonestly euphemistic and you know it.
  - pydry 4y ago
    >This is irrelevant to the question being discussed It's completely relevant. The point being that being anti zionist is a necessary precondition of being consistently antiracist. I will condemn clear and open anti semitism. I have no problem with that. I cant in good faith condemn anti semitism and not condemn Isaac Herzog's comments. Anti semitism is racism. Isaac made some very clear and very obvious racist remarks as the head of the zionist state too. To be consistently antiracist I have to condemn those too, as well as the sheer overwhelming levels of racism inherent in the state he leads. It is also a natural consequence of holding these views that you will, inevitably be accused of antisemitism. The correlation on that is nearly 100% as far as I can see - it happened to me, it happened to all of my friends, it happened to everyone involved in BDS. Consistent antiracism guarantees that you will falsely be accused of antisemitism...by racists. >As I described above, anti-Zionism is a wide tent with some racist genocidal crackpot conspiracy theorist And pro zionism is a wide tent with a self declared racist at the very top whose racism is endorsed, whether implicitly or explicitly by damn near everybody in the tent. I keep asking pro zionists and zionist apologists to prove themselves exceptions to this rule and they consistently refuse - thereby implicitly placing themselves in the "pro racism" group, i suppose. >Dishonestly euphemistic and you know it. No, not really. I tend to view the president of a cause to be a bit more representative of it than I do a few crackpots who hold up a flag. I similarly dont view Baruch Goldstein as representative of all zionists. Unlike most other people who conflate antisemitism and antizionism, I dont just have a preferred flavor of racism.

pydry 4y ago

>Yes, those specific anti-Zionists aren't anti-semites. These are the types of anti-Zionists that you'll find in tech circles who are educated, egalitarian minded people that are cognitively capable of separating the crimes of a state and the ethnic group inside it. Israel hates these people the most. It's not hard to see why. Random people who attack Jews arent a threat - they get condemned and sent to prison quickly. BDS, on the other hand, has a history of successfully taking down apartheid states. >That doesn't detract from the observation that there's an intersection and correlation between people who are anti-Zionist and people who are anti-semitic. It really is curious. Every person I've observed who has tried to make this point has staunchly avoided condemning the publicly stated highly racist views of the President of Israel after I raised them. It's not a correlation. It's literally 100%, even among people who are supposedly egalitarian and educated. This does detract from your observation, Im afraid. There is a very clear anti-zionism correlation to committed anti-racism, and an even higher correlation between being antiracist and those accused of antisemitism who deny it. One or two nazis holding up a palestinian flag (not somethingk they tend to do a lot) doesnt change that.

hackerlight 4y ago
> staunchly avoided condemning the publicly stated highly racist views of the President of Israel after I raised them. This is irrelevant to the question being discussed which is whether anti-Zionism is correlated with anti-semitism. However, I did look up his statements now and yes it appears he is indeed some kind of racist. That's still besides the point. > very clear anti-zionism correlation to committed anti-racism Yes, that correlation also exists. That's not at all mutually exclusive with a correlation between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism. As I described above, anti-Zionism is a wide tent with some racist genocidal crackpot conspiracy theorist ethnoreligious nationalists mixed together with true egalitarian anti-racist leftists and liberals. > One or two nazis holding up a palestinian flag (not somethingk they tend to do a lot) doesnt change that. Dishonestly euphemistic and you know it.
- pydry 4y ago
  >This is irrelevant to the question being discussed It's completely relevant. The point being that being anti zionist is a necessary precondition of being consistently antiracist. I will condemn clear and open anti semitism. I have no problem with that. I cant in good faith condemn anti semitism and not condemn Isaac Herzog's comments. Anti semitism is racism. Isaac made some very clear and very obvious racist remarks as the head of the zionist state too. To be consistently antiracist I have to condemn those too, as well as the sheer overwhelming levels of racism inherent in the state he leads. It is also a natural consequence of holding these views that you will, inevitably be accused of antisemitism. The correlation on that is nearly 100% as far as I can see - it happened to me, it happened to all of my friends, it happened to everyone involved in BDS. Consistent antiracism guarantees that you will falsely be accused of antisemitism...by racists. >As I described above, anti-Zionism is a wide tent with some racist genocidal crackpot conspiracy theorist And pro zionism is a wide tent with a self declared racist at the very top whose racism is endorsed, whether implicitly or explicitly by damn near everybody in the tent. I keep asking pro zionists and zionist apologists to prove themselves exceptions to this rule and they consistently refuse - thereby implicitly placing themselves in the "pro racism" group, i suppose. >Dishonestly euphemistic and you know it. No, not really. I tend to view the president of a cause to be a bit more representative of it than I do a few crackpots who hold up a flag. I similarly dont view Baruch Goldstein as representative of all zionists. Unlike most other people who conflate antisemitism and antizionism, I dont just have a preferred flavor of racism.