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I use an 11 years old desktop computer, with a few upgrades (memory, SSD). It is good enough for my virtual machines and other heavy programs. I don't see a re

by aviCC 4y ago

I use an 11 years old desktop computer, with a few upgrades (memory, SSD). It is good enough for my virtual machines and other heavy programs. I don't see a reason to invest in a laptop if 90% of the time you work in the same place. For the other 10% - buy a cheap laptop.

adrian_b 4y ago
Also because of working most of the time in the same place, I have decided to not invest in a new laptop. However the solution that I have chosen for travelling, when that is necessary, is different. For my work, I need a large number of peripheral ports, as many Thunderbolt, USB Ethernet ports as possible and enough ports for multiple monitors. I also need at least 64 GB of DRAM, which excludes a very large number of the current laptop models, especially among the AMD models, which cannot be configured with so much memory. Also, after becoming older, I strongly prefer a larger display, so I would want a laptop with a 17" display. While there are a lot of laptop models that match my requirements, they are also very expensive and quite heavy. I have realized that I can get all the features that I want at a much lower price and even at a lower weight, by using an Intel NUC or similar computer, together with a portable 17" monitor and a compact keyboard for the occasions when I have to carry it. Even when I have used laptops, I have never used them on my lap or in any place where there was no power plug, so their advantages for such uses do not matter for me. Besides the lower price and weight, the NUC solution also has the advantage of a better performance than most laptops using the same CPU, due to a better cooler that allows a high steady-state power dissipation without thermal throttling (e.g. in the current Wall Street Canyon Intel NUCs, the Alder Lake P CPUs with a nominal TDP of 28 W are configured to dissipate 35 W for an indefinite time, while many thin laptops with Alder Lake P cannot dissipate even 28 W without throttling).
- rdevnull 4y ago
  I can't really make up if this is a joke or not. Assuming it isn't, seriously ? If someone needs a laptop the pre-requisite is to be portable. This solution is not a laptop replacement. Why not simply move around with your desktop ? Actually this is what is suggested, monitor et al.
  - adrian_b 4y ago
    It is not at all a joke. When you have monitors at the destination, e.g. when commuting between home and office, it is much easier to carry in the backpack or in the briefcase a NUC than a laptop. A NUC-like computer weighs much less than 1 kg, typically between 0.3 kg and 0.5 kg. Even if you go e.g. in a business trip and you carry with you a portable 17" inch monitor (weight around 1 kg) and a compact keyboard, the weight is less than that of an equivalent 17" mobile workstation, which weighs between 2.5 kg and 3.5 kg. So yes, a NUC is much easier to carry than a large laptop, and when you already have a monitor at the destination it is much easier to carry than the thinnest and lightest ultrabook. I have carried NUCs daily to the office for years, because it was much more convenient than carrying the laptop, but previously I have not also used them for most business trips, because I did not have a portable monitor. A NUC can be also battery-powered like a laptop, e.g. by using a laptop charger from Anker or similar, but I have needed this very seldom.
    - rdevnull 4y ago
      I understand. Just talking about weight a Macbook 16" is 2 Kg. So it would be much lighter, more integrated then carrying around all these pieces. If you go in a business trip you need the integration and battery of a laptop. Allright, this is not a 17" inches but you can easily increase the text size if needed. Of course to each its own and is perfect that this solution works for you. But suggesting that is a lighter alternative to a real, modern laptop is incorrect. As it is the article that seems to advocate using obsolete browsers, obsolete editors and no modern software for the sake of saving money or the World. The truth is that whomever depends on a computer for paid work needs performance. New processors (like the apple M1) are much faster than a 6-7 years old laptop. And, if the green cause is important, much more efficient energy management and longer battery life. If you need power and quality (think images/video editing) you can't work with software and hardware of a decade (of two decades ago).
      - madrobot 4y ago
        I think the trend with macbook pros without a display ( will swap over to us) with monitors at different places or a virtual reality device with some tool like immersed. its lighter without a display, everything else is included ( keyboard, trackpad, batteries, sound and so on)
- mrweasel 4y ago
  I’ve gone the opposite way. After having used the MacBook Air with the M1, I don’t want anything bigger. I have a 16” MacBook Pro and that’s honestly to big for me to get any real use out of it as a laptop. I’d like to move around more, but not with something of the size. If I need the big screen, or keyboard I just “dock” it to a USB-C monitor.
  - pmontra 4y ago
    I've been thinking about doing that but what do you do about the monitor? I imagine you're not bringing one with you (maybe you're moving one around your home), but what happens when you move to work in other places? Customers, friend's places, restaurants, etc.
    - Joeri 4y ago
      I use the m1 air for web development and the 16:10 aspect ratio combined with the retina screen and the gestures to easily swipe between full screen applications makes it feel less cramped than the 14 inch 1080p thinkpad it replaced. I never feel the need to hook it up to external displays. Of course, YMMV.
rdevnull 4y ago
I don't want to sound dimissive but if you code anything more than 90's stuff an 11 years old desktop won't cut it. Especially if you have an apple computer. Such a model is not just obsolete but would open a lot of security issues. Invest in a laptop? With the current prices pretty much everyone that uses a computer professionally can afford a laptop.
- blark 4y ago
  Until last year I used a 2011 iMac with Linux, 24gb of RAM and an SSD. Quite a bit better in performance and security than laptops I've seen engineers issued last year.
  - moondev 4y ago
    Way faster FireWire and DVDR speed too
    - rdevnull 4y ago
      sure and no way to look at your photos in icloud, connect to music or interact with apple tv (or develop or test any app). But sure, you don't need icloud if you got your photos on DVD right ?
      - moondev 4y ago
        DVD? zipdisk over firewire has all my sony mavica 640x480s.
  - rdevnull 4y ago
    the key is "with linux". Try developing iOS apps or do anything within the apple ecosystem (e.g. check your photos?). Not viable for 99.9% of mac users.
    - blark 4y ago
      My computer was too old for Apple, a characteristic similar to saying 90% of brand new laptops are too blonde. There are very few modern Apple development machines but anyone with an old desktop can make most modern software. (There are also plenty of exceptions where an Arm laptop isn't usable in software development, so nothing is universal.)

by aviCC 4y ago

adrian_b 4y ago

Also because of working most of the time in the same place, I have decided to not invest in a new laptop. However the solution that I have chosen for travelling, when that is necessary, is different. For my work, I need a large number of peripheral ports, as many Thunderbolt, USB Ethernet ports as possible and enough ports for multiple monitors. I also need at least 64 GB of DRAM, which excludes a very large number of the current laptop models, especially among the AMD models, which cannot be configured with so much memory. Also, after becoming older, I strongly prefer a larger display, so I would want a laptop with a 17" display. While there are a lot of laptop models that match my requirements, they are also very expensive and quite heavy. I have realized that I can get all the features that I want at a much lower price and even at a lower weight, by using an Intel NUC or similar computer, together with a portable 17" monitor and a compact keyboard for the occasions when I have to carry it. Even when I have used laptops, I have never used them on my lap or in any place where there was no power plug, so their advantages for such uses do not matter for me. Besides the lower price and weight, the NUC solution also has the advantage of a better performance than most laptops using the same CPU, due to a better cooler that allows a high steady-state power dissipation without thermal throttling (e.g. in the current Wall Street Canyon Intel NUCs, the Alder Lake P CPUs with a nominal TDP of 28 W are configured to dissipate 35 W for an indefinite time, while many thin laptops with Alder Lake P cannot dissipate even 28 W without throttling).

rdevnull 4y ago
I can't really make up if this is a joke or not. Assuming it isn't, seriously ? If someone needs a laptop the pre-requisite is to be portable. This solution is not a laptop replacement. Why not simply move around with your desktop ? Actually this is what is suggested, monitor et al.
- adrian_b 4y ago
  It is not at all a joke. When you have monitors at the destination, e.g. when commuting between home and office, it is much easier to carry in the backpack or in the briefcase a NUC than a laptop. A NUC-like computer weighs much less than 1 kg, typically between 0.3 kg and 0.5 kg. Even if you go e.g. in a business trip and you carry with you a portable 17" inch monitor (weight around 1 kg) and a compact keyboard, the weight is less than that of an equivalent 17" mobile workstation, which weighs between 2.5 kg and 3.5 kg. So yes, a NUC is much easier to carry than a large laptop, and when you already have a monitor at the destination it is much easier to carry than the thinnest and lightest ultrabook. I have carried NUCs daily to the office for years, because it was much more convenient than carrying the laptop, but previously I have not also used them for most business trips, because I did not have a portable monitor. A NUC can be also battery-powered like a laptop, e.g. by using a laptop charger from Anker or similar, but I have needed this very seldom.
  - rdevnull 4y ago
    I understand. Just talking about weight a Macbook 16" is 2 Kg. So it would be much lighter, more integrated then carrying around all these pieces. If you go in a business trip you need the integration and battery of a laptop. Allright, this is not a 17" inches but you can easily increase the text size if needed. Of course to each its own and is perfect that this solution works for you. But suggesting that is a lighter alternative to a real, modern laptop is incorrect. As it is the article that seems to advocate using obsolete browsers, obsolete editors and no modern software for the sake of saving money or the World. The truth is that whomever depends on a computer for paid work needs performance. New processors (like the apple M1) are much faster than a 6-7 years old laptop. And, if the green cause is important, much more efficient energy management and longer battery life. If you need power and quality (think images/video editing) you can't work with software and hardware of a decade (of two decades ago).
    - madrobot 4y ago
      I think the trend with macbook pros without a display ( will swap over to us) with monitors at different places or a virtual reality device with some tool like immersed. its lighter without a display, everything else is included ( keyboard, trackpad, batteries, sound and so on)
mrweasel 4y ago
I’ve gone the opposite way. After having used the MacBook Air with the M1, I don’t want anything bigger. I have a 16” MacBook Pro and that’s honestly to big for me to get any real use out of it as a laptop. I’d like to move around more, but not with something of the size. If I need the big screen, or keyboard I just “dock” it to a USB-C monitor.
- pmontra 4y ago
  I've been thinking about doing that but what do you do about the monitor? I imagine you're not bringing one with you (maybe you're moving one around your home), but what happens when you move to work in other places? Customers, friend's places, restaurants, etc.
  - Joeri 4y ago
    I use the m1 air for web development and the 16:10 aspect ratio combined with the retina screen and the gestures to easily swipe between full screen applications makes it feel less cramped than the 14 inch 1080p thinkpad it replaced. I never feel the need to hook it up to external displays. Of course, YMMV.

rdevnull 4y ago

I don't want to sound dimissive but if you code anything more than 90's stuff an 11 years old desktop won't cut it. Especially if you have an apple computer. Such a model is not just obsolete but would open a lot of security issues. Invest in a laptop? With the current prices pretty much everyone that uses a computer professionally can afford a laptop.

blark 4y ago
Until last year I used a 2011 iMac with Linux, 24gb of RAM and an SSD. Quite a bit better in performance and security than laptops I've seen engineers issued last year.
- moondev 4y ago
  Way faster FireWire and DVDR speed too
  - rdevnull 4y ago
    sure and no way to look at your photos in icloud, connect to music or interact with apple tv (or develop or test any app). But sure, you don't need icloud if you got your photos on DVD right ?
    - moondev 4y ago
      DVD? zipdisk over firewire has all my sony mavica 640x480s.
- rdevnull 4y ago
  the key is "with linux". Try developing iOS apps or do anything within the apple ecosystem (e.g. check your photos?). Not viable for 99.9% of mac users.
  - blark 4y ago
    My computer was too old for Apple, a characteristic similar to saying 90% of brand new laptops are too blonde. There are very few modern Apple development machines but anyone with an old desktop can make most modern software. (There are also plenty of exceptions where an Arm laptop isn't usable in software development, so nothing is universal.)