4 ms·

This is one of the biggest flaws in crypto. Small errors can erode hundreds of millions of value. That's when most crypto companies right now are very small. C

by spaceman_2020 4y ago

This is one of the biggest flaws in crypto. Small errors can erode hundreds of millions of value. That's when most crypto companies right now are very small. Can you imagine the chaos if crypto were to actually become big and dev count were to grow to 1k+ people spread across multiple offices? There's definite efficiency gains with crypto (a dex like Uniswap can do massive volume with very few developers for instance), but there needs to be a way to limit the cost of human errors.

mpeg 4y ago
It's not exactly unique to crypto... in adtech, a configuration mistake on a web server can cost 6-7 figures as ads are being paid for, but take people nowhere.
- kelnos 4y ago
  Sure, but the company managing the ad network can choose to be gentle, and refund the money. With these sorts of crypto mistakes, the money is just gone, because humans are -- as a desired feature of the system -- unable to correct these sorts of mistakes.
- blibble 4y ago
  and in a live trading system a small mistake can cost you 6-7 figures per second see: Knight Capital
  - mpeg 4y ago
    indeed! the fintech world is already full of these footguns, but HN is very anti-crypto, so everything wrong that happens there is proof the whole industry is doomed
- LetMeInNowMate 4y ago
  - mpeg 4y ago
    That's your opinion. Who do you think loses out in a situation like that? The ad network is getting paid regardless, the adtech company (DSP, etc) will pretend nothing is wrong unless their client has hard proof and the client (probably a company you buy things every day from) was simply trying to promote a new product and will assume performance was just off. Ultimately it is their customer that pays for all this by continuing to buy their products and use ad-powered platforms.
rvz 4y ago
> This is one of the biggest flaws in crypto. Small errors can erode hundreds of millions of value. This is hardly exclusive to crypto. > Can you imagine the chaos if crypto were to actually become big and dev count were to grow to 1k+ people spread across multiple offices? Yeah I can already imagine in other places, just ask Santander Bank. [0] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/30/santander-bank-pays-out-130m-in-christmas-day-blunder https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/30/santander-b...
- simiones 4y ago
  > Yeah I can already imagine in other places, just ask Santander Bank. [0] Per the article, they were very likely to recover most of that money (and were legally entitled to recover all of it, but were unwilling to do so for image reasons). So exactly the opposite of what happens with DeFi.
jdasdf 4y ago
> This is one of the biggest flaws in crypto. Small errors can erode hundreds of millions of value. That's reality. Same thing would have happened if they had put all that cash on a boat, and accidentally sunk it.
- michaelt 4y ago
  Sure - but a lot of systems have a safety net of test environments and change control, and a safety net as they can revert changes, and a safety net as they can restore backups, and a safety net as they can ask counterparties nicely to help undo things, and a safety net through the legal system, and a safety net of insurance. The normal banking industry is operating chainsaws very cautiously, with a lot of safety equipment and training. The cryptocurrency industry may be operating the same chainsaws, but they're trying to juggle them naked, on a floor slick with the blood of their peers.
  - jdasdf 4y ago
    There's no reasons those safety nets can't exist here. Test nets, and insurance can take on those resposnibilities with the same effect.
- SkipperCat 4y ago
  Cash, being paper, would probably float.... Sadly for oceanic finance transfers, it's mostly gold, and that stuff sinks fast.
- pjerem 4y ago
  Sure. But there is no reason to put all your cash on a boat, so nobody does it (or it's because the risks outweighs the benefits).
- glofish 4y ago
  > Same thing would have happened if they had put all that cash on a boat, and accidentally sunk it. Are you saying that it is impossible to get valuables out of a boat that sunk? "Treasure trove of gold and jewels recovered from a 366-year-old shipwreck in the Bahamas" https://www.livescience.com/bahamas-shipwreck-gold-jewels https://www.livescience.com/bahamas-shipwreck-gold-jewels

mpeg 4y ago

It's not exactly unique to crypto... in adtech, a configuration mistake on a web server can cost 6-7 figures as ads are being paid for, but take people nowhere.

kelnos 4y ago
Sure, but the company managing the ad network can choose to be gentle, and refund the money. With these sorts of crypto mistakes, the money is just gone, because humans are -- as a desired feature of the system -- unable to correct these sorts of mistakes.
blibble 4y ago
and in a live trading system a small mistake can cost you 6-7 figures per second see: Knight Capital
- mpeg 4y ago
  indeed! the fintech world is already full of these footguns, but HN is very anti-crypto, so everything wrong that happens there is proof the whole industry is doomed
LetMeInNowMate 4y ago
- mpeg 4y ago
  That's your opinion. Who do you think loses out in a situation like that? The ad network is getting paid regardless, the adtech company (DSP, etc) will pretend nothing is wrong unless their client has hard proof and the client (probably a company you buy things every day from) was simply trying to promote a new product and will assume performance was just off. Ultimately it is their customer that pays for all this by continuing to buy their products and use ad-powered platforms.

rvz 4y ago

> This is one of the biggest flaws in crypto. Small errors can erode hundreds of millions of value. This is hardly exclusive to crypto. > Can you imagine the chaos if crypto were to actually become big and dev count were to grow to 1k+ people spread across multiple offices? Yeah I can already imagine in other places, just ask Santander Bank. [0] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/30/santander-bank-pays-out-130m-in-christmas-day-blunder https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/30/santander-b...

simiones 4y ago
> Yeah I can already imagine in other places, just ask Santander Bank. [0] Per the article, they were very likely to recover most of that money (and were legally entitled to recover all of it, but were unwilling to do so for image reasons). So exactly the opposite of what happens with DeFi.

jdasdf 4y ago

> This is one of the biggest flaws in crypto. Small errors can erode hundreds of millions of value. That's reality. Same thing would have happened if they had put all that cash on a boat, and accidentally sunk it.

michaelt 4y ago
Sure - but a lot of systems have a safety net of test environments and change control, and a safety net as they can revert changes, and a safety net as they can restore backups, and a safety net as they can ask counterparties nicely to help undo things, and a safety net through the legal system, and a safety net of insurance. The normal banking industry is operating chainsaws very cautiously, with a lot of safety equipment and training. The cryptocurrency industry may be operating the same chainsaws, but they're trying to juggle them naked, on a floor slick with the blood of their peers.
- jdasdf 4y ago
  There's no reasons those safety nets can't exist here. Test nets, and insurance can take on those resposnibilities with the same effect.
SkipperCat 4y ago
Cash, being paper, would probably float.... Sadly for oceanic finance transfers, it's mostly gold, and that stuff sinks fast.
pjerem 4y ago
Sure. But there is no reason to put all your cash on a boat, so nobody does it (or it's because the risks outweighs the benefits).
glofish 4y ago
> Same thing would have happened if they had put all that cash on a boat, and accidentally sunk it. Are you saying that it is impossible to get valuables out of a boat that sunk? "Treasure trove of gold and jewels recovered from a 366-year-old shipwreck in the Bahamas" https://www.livescience.com/bahamas-shipwreck-gold-jewels https://www.livescience.com/bahamas-shipwreck-gold-jewels