4 ms·

I’m not sure what you mean by safety driver, but F1 is explicitly a team sport, and team orders are a part of the sport rather than a form of cheating. As much

I’m not sure what you mean by safety driver, but F1 is explicitly a team sport, and team orders are a part of the sport rather than a form of cheating. As much as the fans like to complain about it, there’s only really a few controversial cases that stand out in peoples memories, like the multi 21 race (which ultimately had 0 impact on the championship).

dmitriid 4y ago
Yeah, yeah, team sport, and then Alonso who leads everyone by a lap just randomly slows down in the last two laps to let Schumacher win [1] [1] It was quite some time ago, but I'm still pissed
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
  Alonso?! Maybe you mean Barrichello?
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    Maybe? It was loooong ago :)
    - beebeepka 4y ago
      Haha. Alonso would never play second fiddle.
- volongoto 4y ago
  That's one of the few F1 races I remember. (it wasn't Alonso, though, it was Barrichello). That was dramatic. If I remember correctly, Schumacher gave the trophy to Barrichello at the podium as a gesture to show that he was the one who deserved it and Barrichello couldn't hold back the tears.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    Yeah. They shared the podium and F1 fined them for doing that because they couldn't do anything else.
beebeepka 4y ago
I think they meant "second" driver. Clearly an autocorrect or brainfart. We know it's a team sport but the star of the show is usually just one guy. Even though they often praise the team and everyone back in the factory, the glory is always directed at the drivers. And in most cases, one particular driver. The star. Clearly the second drivers have to deal with a lot of shit... that is specified in their contracts
shakna 4y ago
> ... team orders are a part of the sport rather than a form of cheating. As much as the fans like to complain about it, there’s only really a few controversial cases... Actually, if a team order changes a ranking, and it can be proved, then the team is automatically issued a fine. Just because the team orders happen, does not actually mean that they're _allowed_ to happen. The fines are generally in the order of $100k-$250k. Team orders have been banned in F1 since 2008 [0]: > 152. Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited. There's a reason that Smedley's quote is infamous: > Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understand that message? [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20081206120227/https://paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules/ew_filemanager/07images/f1/fia/033007_2008_F1_SPORTING_REGULATIONS.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20081206120227/https://paddockta...
- singlow 4y ago
  Team orders were banned in 2002 but it was lifted in 2011.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
  > Team orders have been banned in F1 since 2008 [0]: This statement is misleading, as it gives the appearance that this ban is still in effect. However, the ban was repealed at the end of 2010 season. [0] [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_orders https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_orders
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    >> Team orders have been banned in F1 since 2008 [0]: > This statement is misleading, as it gives the appearance that this ban is still in effect. Not quite. The statement is false, because it states outright that the ban is still in effect.
- AmericanChopper 4y ago
  That ban on team orders was repealed very soon after it was implemented. F1 is currently, and has been for nearly its entire history, a team sport, where team orders are allowed.
saiya-jin 4y ago
That's one sure way to show literally everybody how it stopped being a sport, and just became politics and ego game of few fuckers who run it behind the curtains. One hell of a way to disgust millions of people immediately, and as you can see here and elsewhere, they will easily hold the grudge for decades. Its just a plain idiotic move to be polite. Nobody is cheering for ie team Williams, everybody is cheering for their favorite driver. Your attempt to normalize it is so surreal. Do you also like other, proper team sports like football or hockey for all the behind the scenes politics, or actually for the sport itself?
- AmericanChopper 4y ago
  Teamwork happens every race, and it’s very rarely controversial at all. Teammates towing each other in qualifying is teamwork. Teammates holding up rivals for each other is teamwork. Sergio Perez’s entire Abu Dhabi race last year was team work, and hardly anybody considers any of that to be controversial at all. Even most orders to give up position aren’t controversial, because most of them are drivers on split strategies being ordered not to hold the faster driver up. F1 is just fundamentally a team sport, and hardly any of the teamwork generates any level of controversy at all. Even the (very uncommon) controversial cases of a driver being ordered to give up a race win are only a big deal to a certain segment of fans. Typically the deluded ones who think Bottas was better than Hamilton, or Webber was better than Vettel, or Barrichello was better than Schumi, and that all of those drivers would have championships if it weren’t for team orders.

dmitriid 4y ago

Yeah, yeah, team sport, and then Alonso who leads everyone by a lap just randomly slows down in the last two laps to let Schumacher win [1] [1] It was quite some time ago, but I'm still pissed

Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
Alonso?! Maybe you mean Barrichello?
- dmitriid 4y ago
  Maybe? It was loooong ago :)
  - beebeepka 4y ago
    Haha. Alonso would never play second fiddle.
volongoto 4y ago
That's one of the few F1 races I remember. (it wasn't Alonso, though, it was Barrichello). That was dramatic. If I remember correctly, Schumacher gave the trophy to Barrichello at the podium as a gesture to show that he was the one who deserved it and Barrichello couldn't hold back the tears.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  Yeah. They shared the podium and F1 fined them for doing that because they couldn't do anything else.

beebeepka 4y ago

I think they meant "second" driver. Clearly an autocorrect or brainfart. We know it's a team sport but the star of the show is usually just one guy. Even though they often praise the team and everyone back in the factory, the glory is always directed at the drivers. And in most cases, one particular driver. The star. Clearly the second drivers have to deal with a lot of shit... that is specified in their contracts

shakna 4y ago

> ... team orders are a part of the sport rather than a form of cheating. As much as the fans like to complain about it, there’s only really a few controversial cases... Actually, if a team order changes a ranking, and it can be proved, then the team is automatically issued a fine. Just because the team orders happen, does not actually mean that they're _allowed_ to happen. The fines are generally in the order of $100k-$250k. Team orders have been banned in F1 since 2008 [0]: > 152. Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited. There's a reason that Smedley's quote is infamous: > Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understand that message? [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20081206120227/https://paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules/ew_filemanager/07images/f1/fia/033007_2008_F1_SPORTING_REGULATIONS.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20081206120227/https://paddockta...

singlow 4y ago
Team orders were banned in 2002 but it was lifted in 2011.
Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
> Team orders have been banned in F1 since 2008 [0]: This statement is misleading, as it gives the appearance that this ban is still in effect. However, the ban was repealed at the end of 2010 season. [0] [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_orders https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_orders
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  >> Team orders have been banned in F1 since 2008 [0]: > This statement is misleading, as it gives the appearance that this ban is still in effect. Not quite. The statement is false, because it states outright that the ban is still in effect.
AmericanChopper 4y ago
That ban on team orders was repealed very soon after it was implemented. F1 is currently, and has been for nearly its entire history, a team sport, where team orders are allowed.

saiya-jin 4y ago

That's one sure way to show literally everybody how it stopped being a sport, and just became politics and ego game of few fuckers who run it behind the curtains. One hell of a way to disgust millions of people immediately, and as you can see here and elsewhere, they will easily hold the grudge for decades. Its just a plain idiotic move to be polite. Nobody is cheering for ie team Williams, everybody is cheering for their favorite driver. Your attempt to normalize it is so surreal. Do you also like other, proper team sports like football or hockey for all the behind the scenes politics, or actually for the sport itself?

AmericanChopper 4y ago
Teamwork happens every race, and it’s very rarely controversial at all. Teammates towing each other in qualifying is teamwork. Teammates holding up rivals for each other is teamwork. Sergio Perez’s entire Abu Dhabi race last year was team work, and hardly anybody considers any of that to be controversial at all. Even most orders to give up position aren’t controversial, because most of them are drivers on split strategies being ordered not to hold the faster driver up. F1 is just fundamentally a team sport, and hardly any of the teamwork generates any level of controversy at all. Even the (very uncommon) controversial cases of a driver being ordered to give up a race win are only a big deal to a certain segment of fans. Typically the deluded ones who think Bottas was better than Hamilton, or Webber was better than Vettel, or Barrichello was better than Schumi, and that all of those drivers would have championships if it weren’t for team orders.