5 ms·

I'm curious why would they have an interest in a particular player ever getting a grand slam?

thrdbndndn 4y ago
I guess it's simply an honor to have, and if you (the country) are going to win anyway, why not? Keep in mind it's not any "particular" individual, everyone take turns. So if you're "close", you have the priority. If you already have one? Well you can try to not push so hard. And it's not like it happens all the time, just in a few cases. It's still largely merit-based especially for things like Olympics trial, you have to earn it no matter who you are.
archsurface 4y ago
To create a national superhero.
shakna 4y ago
It's a regular thing in other sports, as well. The number of times it has caused controversy in Formula-One, with a safety driver told to lose, is probably not even worth counting. (Everyone does it, but they're not supposed to). It has something to do with prestige and respect, often enforced by the team owner. Lewis Hamilton made his first huge win by ignoring such an instruction.
- AmericanChopper 4y ago
  I’m not sure what you mean by safety driver, but F1 is explicitly a team sport, and team orders are a part of the sport rather than a form of cheating. As much as the fans like to complain about it, there’s only really a few controversial cases that stand out in peoples memories, like the multi 21 race (which ultimately had 0 impact on the championship).
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    Yeah, yeah, team sport, and then Alonso who leads everyone by a lap just randomly slows down in the last two laps to let Schumacher win [1] [1] It was quite some time ago, but I'm still pissed
    - Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
      Alonso?! Maybe you mean Barrichello?
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        Maybe? It was loooong ago :)
        beebeepka 4y ago
        Haha. Alonso would never play second fiddle.
    - volongoto 4y ago
      That's one of the few F1 races I remember. (it wasn't Alonso, though, it was Barrichello). That was dramatic. If I remember correctly, Schumacher gave the trophy to Barrichello at the podium as a gesture to show that he was the one who deserved it and Barrichello couldn't hold back the tears.
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        Yeah. They shared the podium and F1 fined them for doing that because they couldn't do anything else.
  - beebeepka 4y ago
    I think they meant "second" driver. Clearly an autocorrect or brainfart. We know it's a team sport but the star of the show is usually just one guy. Even though they often praise the team and everyone back in the factory, the glory is always directed at the drivers. And in most cases, one particular driver. The star. Clearly the second drivers have to deal with a lot of shit... that is specified in their contracts
  - shakna 4y ago
    > ... team orders are a part of the sport rather than a form of cheating. As much as the fans like to complain about it, there’s only really a few controversial cases... Actually, if a team order changes a ranking, and it can be proved, then the team is automatically issued a fine. Just because the team orders happen, does not actually mean that they're _allowed_ to happen. The fines are generally in the order of $100k-$250k. Team orders have been banned in F1 since 2008 [0]: > 152. Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited. There's a reason that Smedley's quote is infamous: > Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understand that message? [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20081206120227/https://paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules/ew_filemanager/07images/f1/fia/033007_2008_F1_SPORTING_REGULATIONS.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20081206120227/https://paddockta...
    - singlow 4y ago
      Team orders were banned in 2002 but it was lifted in 2011.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
      > Team orders have been banned in F1 since 2008 [0]: This statement is misleading, as it gives the appearance that this ban is still in effect. However, the ban was repealed at the end of 2010 season. [0] [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_orders https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_orders
      - thaumasiotes 4y ago
        >> Team orders have been banned in F1 since 2008 [0]: > This statement is misleading, as it gives the appearance that this ban is still in effect. Not quite. The statement is false, because it states outright that the ban is still in effect.
    - AmericanChopper 4y ago
      That ban on team orders was repealed very soon after it was implemented. F1 is currently, and has been for nearly its entire history, a team sport, where team orders are allowed.
  - saiya-jin 4y ago
    That's one sure way to show literally everybody how it stopped being a sport, and just became politics and ego game of few fuckers who run it behind the curtains. One hell of a way to disgust millions of people immediately, and as you can see here and elsewhere, they will easily hold the grudge for decades. Its just a plain idiotic move to be polite. Nobody is cheering for ie team Williams, everybody is cheering for their favorite driver. Your attempt to normalize it is so surreal. Do you also like other, proper team sports like football or hockey for all the behind the scenes politics, or actually for the sport itself?
    - AmericanChopper 4y ago
      Teamwork happens every race, and it’s very rarely controversial at all. Teammates towing each other in qualifying is teamwork. Teammates holding up rivals for each other is teamwork. Sergio Perez’s entire Abu Dhabi race last year was team work, and hardly anybody considers any of that to be controversial at all. Even most orders to give up position aren’t controversial, because most of them are drivers on split strategies being ordered not to hold the faster driver up. F1 is just fundamentally a team sport, and hardly any of the teamwork generates any level of controversy at all. Even the (very uncommon) controversial cases of a driver being ordered to give up a race win are only a big deal to a certain segment of fans. Typically the deluded ones who think Bottas was better than Hamilton, or Webber was better than Vettel, or Barrichello was better than Schumi, and that all of those drivers would have championships if it weren’t for team orders.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
  > Lewis Hamilton made his first huge win by ignoring such an instruction. Excuse me, what exactly are you referring to? His first GP win was just a regular race without any controversy, and his first championship win was... not impressive, to say it mildly. He did everything to lose and was only saved by Timo Glock slipping on the last lap. It is also known that Hamilton was always favoured by the team owners and often benefitted from team orders throughout his career.
- josefx 4y ago
  > with a safety driver told to lose, Not only told to loose. I think in at least one case someone was told to crash, completely blocking the raceway on an already narrow curve. I wouldn't be surprised if that where common even as in some sports one bad racer can take out half the competition.
  - elif 4y ago
    Sorry but having watched every race and attended 11 in the last decade+, I know not only that the event you are imagining didn't happen in the modern era, it simply would not happen to any team during any season. The penalties for rebuilding a car are reason enough. Being able to hide a coded message for "crash the car" would mean it needs to be discussed before the race began. If the driver followed the command it would be at the risk of HIS superlicense, his entire livelihood, not just some race points for some team he's with for one season. On the face you've offered an unsubstantiated and impossible enigma for another reader to "solve" If it weren't for extensive F1 knowledge I might even have been confused by your obvious mistaken recollection or troll.
    - mtnGoat 4y ago
      I guess you must have missed the race then. Just because you aren’t aware of something doesn’t make it untrue.
    - shakna 4y ago
      > Sorry but having watched every race and attended 11 in the last decade+, I know not only that the event you are imagining didn't happen in the modern era, it simply would not happen to any team during any season. That would be the crash in 2008, to the advantage of Fernando. Renault did not contest the charges. In the words of Nelson Piquet Jr.: > During the Formula One Grand Prix of Singapore, held on 28 September 2008 and counting towards the 2008 FIA Formula One World Championship, I was asked by Mr. Flavio Briatore, who is both my manager and the Team Principal of the Renault F1 Team, and by Mr Pat Symonds, the Technical Director of the ING Renault F1 Team, to deliberately crash my car in order to positively influence the performance of the ING Renault F1 team at the event in question. I agreed to this proposal and caused my car to hit a wall and crash during lap thirteen/fourteen of the race. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20091001201052/http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17075&Itemid=219 https://web.archive.org/web/20091001201052/http://www.f1sa.c...
- brigandish 4y ago
  Are you getting Hamilton mixed up with Vettel? https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-why-did-vettel-ignore-team-orders-and-pass-webber/3219488/ https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-why-did-vettel-i...
  - InitialLastName 4y ago
    That was far from Vettel's first win either (he'd won 3 championships at that point).
hiyer 4y ago
Speculating - maybe they thought the other player had better chances of winning?
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  Correct but it also increases the chance of a win by preventing the player from exhausting themselves in round 1 leaving them fresher for round 2 so one could see it as not much different than doping or any other form of cheating. An unfair advantage conferred by corruption.
arinlen 4y ago
> I'm curious why would they have an interest in a particular player ever getting a grand slam? I'm sure that it's for the same reason football teams have their top scorer take their team's penalty kicks.

I guess it's simply an honor to have, and if you (the country) are going to win anyway, why not? Keep in mind it's not any "particular" individual, everyone take turns. So if you're "close", you have the priority. If you already have one? Well you can try to not push so hard. And it's not like it happens all the time, just in a few cases. It's still largely merit-based especially for things like Olympics trial, you have to earn it no matter who you are.

archsurface 4y ago

To create a national superhero.

shakna 4y ago

It's a regular thing in other sports, as well. The number of times it has caused controversy in Formula-One, with a safety driver told to lose, is probably not even worth counting. (Everyone does it, but they're not supposed to). It has something to do with prestige and respect, often enforced by the team owner. Lewis Hamilton made his first huge win by ignoring such an instruction.

AmericanChopper 4y ago
I’m not sure what you mean by safety driver, but F1 is explicitly a team sport, and team orders are a part of the sport rather than a form of cheating. As much as the fans like to complain about it, there’s only really a few controversial cases that stand out in peoples memories, like the multi 21 race (which ultimately had 0 impact on the championship).
- dmitriid 4y ago
  Yeah, yeah, team sport, and then Alonso who leads everyone by a lap just randomly slows down in the last two laps to let Schumacher win [1] [1] It was quite some time ago, but I'm still pissed
  - Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
    Alonso?! Maybe you mean Barrichello?
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      Maybe? It was loooong ago :)
      - beebeepka 4y ago
        Haha. Alonso would never play second fiddle.
  - volongoto 4y ago
    That's one of the few F1 races I remember. (it wasn't Alonso, though, it was Barrichello). That was dramatic. If I remember correctly, Schumacher gave the trophy to Barrichello at the podium as a gesture to show that he was the one who deserved it and Barrichello couldn't hold back the tears.
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      Yeah. They shared the podium and F1 fined them for doing that because they couldn't do anything else.
- beebeepka 4y ago
  I think they meant "second" driver. Clearly an autocorrect or brainfart. We know it's a team sport but the star of the show is usually just one guy. Even though they often praise the team and everyone back in the factory, the glory is always directed at the drivers. And in most cases, one particular driver. The star. Clearly the second drivers have to deal with a lot of shit... that is specified in their contracts
- shakna 4y ago
  > ... team orders are a part of the sport rather than a form of cheating. As much as the fans like to complain about it, there’s only really a few controversial cases... Actually, if a team order changes a ranking, and it can be proved, then the team is automatically issued a fine. Just because the team orders happen, does not actually mean that they're _allowed_ to happen. The fines are generally in the order of $100k-$250k. Team orders have been banned in F1 since 2008 [0]: > 152. Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited. There's a reason that Smedley's quote is infamous: > Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understand that message? [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20081206120227/https://paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules/ew_filemanager/07images/f1/fia/033007_2008_F1_SPORTING_REGULATIONS.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20081206120227/https://paddockta...
  - singlow 4y ago
    Team orders were banned in 2002 but it was lifted in 2011.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
    > Team orders have been banned in F1 since 2008 [0]: This statement is misleading, as it gives the appearance that this ban is still in effect. However, the ban was repealed at the end of 2010 season. [0] [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_orders https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_orders
    - thaumasiotes 4y ago
      >> Team orders have been banned in F1 since 2008 [0]: > This statement is misleading, as it gives the appearance that this ban is still in effect. Not quite. The statement is false, because it states outright that the ban is still in effect.
  - AmericanChopper 4y ago
    That ban on team orders was repealed very soon after it was implemented. F1 is currently, and has been for nearly its entire history, a team sport, where team orders are allowed.
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  That's one sure way to show literally everybody how it stopped being a sport, and just became politics and ego game of few fuckers who run it behind the curtains. One hell of a way to disgust millions of people immediately, and as you can see here and elsewhere, they will easily hold the grudge for decades. Its just a plain idiotic move to be polite. Nobody is cheering for ie team Williams, everybody is cheering for their favorite driver. Your attempt to normalize it is so surreal. Do you also like other, proper team sports like football or hockey for all the behind the scenes politics, or actually for the sport itself?
  - AmericanChopper 4y ago
    Teamwork happens every race, and it’s very rarely controversial at all. Teammates towing each other in qualifying is teamwork. Teammates holding up rivals for each other is teamwork. Sergio Perez’s entire Abu Dhabi race last year was team work, and hardly anybody considers any of that to be controversial at all. Even most orders to give up position aren’t controversial, because most of them are drivers on split strategies being ordered not to hold the faster driver up. F1 is just fundamentally a team sport, and hardly any of the teamwork generates any level of controversy at all. Even the (very uncommon) controversial cases of a driver being ordered to give up a race win are only a big deal to a certain segment of fans. Typically the deluded ones who think Bottas was better than Hamilton, or Webber was better than Vettel, or Barrichello was better than Schumi, and that all of those drivers would have championships if it weren’t for team orders.
Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
> Lewis Hamilton made his first huge win by ignoring such an instruction. Excuse me, what exactly are you referring to? His first GP win was just a regular race without any controversy, and his first championship win was... not impressive, to say it mildly. He did everything to lose and was only saved by Timo Glock slipping on the last lap. It is also known that Hamilton was always favoured by the team owners and often benefitted from team orders throughout his career.
josefx 4y ago
> with a safety driver told to lose, Not only told to loose. I think in at least one case someone was told to crash, completely blocking the raceway on an already narrow curve. I wouldn't be surprised if that where common even as in some sports one bad racer can take out half the competition.
- elif 4y ago
  Sorry but having watched every race and attended 11 in the last decade+, I know not only that the event you are imagining didn't happen in the modern era, it simply would not happen to any team during any season. The penalties for rebuilding a car are reason enough. Being able to hide a coded message for "crash the car" would mean it needs to be discussed before the race began. If the driver followed the command it would be at the risk of HIS superlicense, his entire livelihood, not just some race points for some team he's with for one season. On the face you've offered an unsubstantiated and impossible enigma for another reader to "solve" If it weren't for extensive F1 knowledge I might even have been confused by your obvious mistaken recollection or troll.
  - mtnGoat 4y ago
    I guess you must have missed the race then. Just because you aren’t aware of something doesn’t make it untrue.
  - shakna 4y ago
    > Sorry but having watched every race and attended 11 in the last decade+, I know not only that the event you are imagining didn't happen in the modern era, it simply would not happen to any team during any season. That would be the crash in 2008, to the advantage of Fernando. Renault did not contest the charges. In the words of Nelson Piquet Jr.: > During the Formula One Grand Prix of Singapore, held on 28 September 2008 and counting towards the 2008 FIA Formula One World Championship, I was asked by Mr. Flavio Briatore, who is both my manager and the Team Principal of the Renault F1 Team, and by Mr Pat Symonds, the Technical Director of the ING Renault F1 Team, to deliberately crash my car in order to positively influence the performance of the ING Renault F1 team at the event in question. I agreed to this proposal and caused my car to hit a wall and crash during lap thirteen/fourteen of the race. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20091001201052/http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17075&Itemid=219 https://web.archive.org/web/20091001201052/http://www.f1sa.c...
brigandish 4y ago
Are you getting Hamilton mixed up with Vettel? https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-why-did-vettel-ignore-team-orders-and-pass-webber/3219488/ https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-why-did-vettel-i...
- InitialLastName 4y ago
  That was far from Vettel's first win either (he'd won 3 championships at that point).

hiyer 4y ago

Speculating - maybe they thought the other player had better chances of winning?

michaelmrose 4y ago
Correct but it also increases the chance of a win by preventing the player from exhausting themselves in round 1 leaving them fresher for round 2 so one could see it as not much different than doping or any other form of cheating. An unfair advantage conferred by corruption.

arinlen 4y ago

> I'm curious why would they have an interest in a particular player ever getting a grand slam? I'm sure that it's for the same reason football teams have their top scorer take their team's penalty kicks.