6 ms·

I find it strange that there appears to be international networks within American universities. I have noticed a large number of people from the same countries,

I find it strange that there appears to be international networks within American universities. I have noticed a large number of people from the same countries, attending similar vague programs (like you mentioned), writing theses with advisors from their home country. It makes me wonder if they are just getting into a completely different program with the "American university" name. Do you have any insight into this?

csa 4y ago
> It makes me wonder if they are just getting into a completely different program with the "American university" name. Not op, but I can answer this. Short answer: Yes. Longer answer: Most non-terminal Masters degree programs are degree mills, even at well known universities. These are almost always pay-to-play with few opportunities for scholarships, TAships, or whatever. Most “real” students will enter a doctoral program and take a masters if they decide a doctorate is not for them. Note that there are exceptions, especially for folks who are changing their career/degree path from undergrad, but these are relatively rare in my experience (at least at good schools). A few simple examples from Harvard: - the LLM law degree is a cash cow for the law school. It is only open to foreigners, and it is almost always funded by a company or the government. Ostensibly this program exists because other countries have undergrad law degrees, but the reality imho is that it’s a juicy cash cow that also generates a strong network. - Harvard EdM degrees are a 9-month program with no thesis — coursework only. There is nothing wrong with this, but it’s a very weak academic program imho. It might be a good practitioner degree, but that doesn’t seem very Harvard-esque. - The MA degrees in the yard (esp arts and humanities) and the div school are pay-to-play ways for Ivy/Harvard wannabes to get the Harvard stamp of approval. You have to be a decent student to get in, but nothing exceptional (e.g., compared to doctoral students). The key point is that the student is willing to pay. These degrees don’t really say much about the program or the student other than they were an above-average college student who was willing to pay to get the Harvard badge. I’ve seen similar programs at very good state schools, with the standards lowered a bit. You see a lot of foreign nationals (looking for h1b jobs after graduation) and vets on the gi bill (often coasting on the government dime with no academic skills or ambition) in these state school programs. If a professor is from a foreign country and/or has a relationship with schools/businesses in foreign countries, it is very easy to use masters degrees as a gateway to employment and residence in the US, and the school largely doesn’t care as long as the student pays and (in some fields) is able to get a job.
- EddySchauHai 4y ago
  I interviewed at Oxford for an MSc in Software Engineering with no bachelors degree lol. There are sneaky gateways into a lot of top universities.
  - sicp-enjoyer 4y ago
    I think that's why the most prestige for top universities is ascribed to those in the undergrad. > MSc in Software Engineering I think "Software engineering" degrees tend to be a strong signal: didn't study CS.
    - EddySchauHai 4y ago
      Yeah exactly. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with SE degrees, they can be as rigorous on CS topics while swapping later maths modules for engineering modules. I ended up taking an MSc in CS fwiw.
      - sicp-enjoyer 4y ago
        I believe high quality programs exist, but I bet most that use the name (masters in particular) aren't.
  - andreareina 4y ago
    Masters degrees not requiring a prior degree in the field seem to be common, at least as far as I saw when I looked into it circa 2014
    - EddySchauHai 4y ago
      Yeah it’s becoming more and more common that universities allow previous experience to count, probably after raising the number of student intakes allowed in the UK. Now if you can pay and if you will probably pass you’re allowed in, from what I gather.
  - tomp 4y ago

csa 4y ago

> It makes me wonder if they are just getting into a completely different program with the "American university" name. Not op, but I can answer this. Short answer: Yes. Longer answer: Most non-terminal Masters degree programs are degree mills, even at well known universities. These are almost always pay-to-play with few opportunities for scholarships, TAships, or whatever. Most “real” students will enter a doctoral program and take a masters if they decide a doctorate is not for them. Note that there are exceptions, especially for folks who are changing their career/degree path from undergrad, but these are relatively rare in my experience (at least at good schools). A few simple examples from Harvard: - the LLM law degree is a cash cow for the law school. It is only open to foreigners, and it is almost always funded by a company or the government. Ostensibly this program exists because other countries have undergrad law degrees, but the reality imho is that it’s a juicy cash cow that also generates a strong network. - Harvard EdM degrees are a 9-month program with no thesis — coursework only. There is nothing wrong with this, but it’s a very weak academic program imho. It might be a good practitioner degree, but that doesn’t seem very Harvard-esque. - The MA degrees in the yard (esp arts and humanities) and the div school are pay-to-play ways for Ivy/Harvard wannabes to get the Harvard stamp of approval. You have to be a decent student to get in, but nothing exceptional (e.g., compared to doctoral students). The key point is that the student is willing to pay. These degrees don’t really say much about the program or the student other than they were an above-average college student who was willing to pay to get the Harvard badge. I’ve seen similar programs at very good state schools, with the standards lowered a bit. You see a lot of foreign nationals (looking for h1b jobs after graduation) and vets on the gi bill (often coasting on the government dime with no academic skills or ambition) in these state school programs. If a professor is from a foreign country and/or has a relationship with schools/businesses in foreign countries, it is very easy to use masters degrees as a gateway to employment and residence in the US, and the school largely doesn’t care as long as the student pays and (in some fields) is able to get a job.

EddySchauHai 4y ago
I interviewed at Oxford for an MSc in Software Engineering with no bachelors degree lol. There are sneaky gateways into a lot of top universities.
- sicp-enjoyer 4y ago
  I think that's why the most prestige for top universities is ascribed to those in the undergrad. > MSc in Software Engineering I think "Software engineering" degrees tend to be a strong signal: didn't study CS.
  - EddySchauHai 4y ago
    Yeah exactly. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with SE degrees, they can be as rigorous on CS topics while swapping later maths modules for engineering modules. I ended up taking an MSc in CS fwiw.
    - sicp-enjoyer 4y ago
      I believe high quality programs exist, but I bet most that use the name (masters in particular) aren't.
- andreareina 4y ago
  Masters degrees not requiring a prior degree in the field seem to be common, at least as far as I saw when I looked into it circa 2014
  - EddySchauHai 4y ago
    Yeah it’s becoming more and more common that universities allow previous experience to count, probably after raising the number of student intakes allowed in the UK. Now if you can pay and if you will probably pass you’re allowed in, from what I gather.
- tomp 4y ago