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Mainland China has no current and short-term future capability to manufacture cutting-edge chips of the kind used in these GPUs.

wmf 4y ago
SMIC just announced 7 nm and Biren announced a GPU with claimed H100-like performance.
- jhanschoo 4y ago
  Thanks; it looks like my understanding is outdated, though note the following caveats: SMIC 7nm: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-chipmaker-smics-7nm-process-is-reportedly-copied-from-tsmc-tech https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-chipmaker-smics-7nm-... (ignore the journalist-speculative headline, but pay attention to the following) > "This low-volume production product may be the steppingstone for a true 7nm process that incorporates scaled logic and memory bitcells. Since bitcoin miners have limited RAM requirements, they likely do not feature the typical bitcell memory that the true 7nm technology definition requires (both scaled logic and bitcell adoption). This chipset likely demonstrates the logic part but not the bitcell aspect," said TechInsights. Biren: this looks to be diffused by TSMC.
  - adrian_b 4y ago
    Biren is made at TSMC, exactly as NVIDIA A100 and H100. Biren is designed in China, like A100 & H100 are designed in USA. As long as TSMC is not forbidden to export to China, forbidding only the export of chips designed in USA can no longer affect China, when they have pretty much identical chip design capabilities with USA.
Barrin92 4y ago
you'd hope people who make these decisions also include some mid and long term thinking. On that time scale any politicization of trade is going to accelerate competitors and incentivize everyone to look towards alternatives. That's basically what's happened in software already. A major reason the US has had sustained influence in the world without using much force is because it has not weaponized trade. It's the reason for the strength of the dollar, the dominance of US tech and finance, and so on. Throwing that away to merely stagger a country that's destined to catch up eventually doesn't seem wise.
- ngc248 4y ago
  >>> A major reason the US has had sustained influence in the world without using much force is because it has not weaponized trade Are you sure? All the economic sanctions which the US heaps on "enemy state"s are nothing but weaponizing trade.
School-Cotton 4y ago
Neither does the US.
- tristan957 4y ago
  Have you missed the announcements by Intel, Samsung, Micron, and TSMC to build new fabs in the US? US semiconductor manufacturing has a bright future. The next decade will see an amazing push.

wmf 4y ago

SMIC just announced 7 nm and Biren announced a GPU with claimed H100-like performance.

jhanschoo 4y ago
Thanks; it looks like my understanding is outdated, though note the following caveats: SMIC 7nm: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-chipmaker-smics-7nm-process-is-reportedly-copied-from-tsmc-tech https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-chipmaker-smics-7nm-... (ignore the journalist-speculative headline, but pay attention to the following) > "This low-volume production product may be the steppingstone for a true 7nm process that incorporates scaled logic and memory bitcells. Since bitcoin miners have limited RAM requirements, they likely do not feature the typical bitcell memory that the true 7nm technology definition requires (both scaled logic and bitcell adoption). This chipset likely demonstrates the logic part but not the bitcell aspect," said TechInsights. Biren: this looks to be diffused by TSMC.
- adrian_b 4y ago
  Biren is made at TSMC, exactly as NVIDIA A100 and H100. Biren is designed in China, like A100 & H100 are designed in USA. As long as TSMC is not forbidden to export to China, forbidding only the export of chips designed in USA can no longer affect China, when they have pretty much identical chip design capabilities with USA.

Barrin92 4y ago

you'd hope people who make these decisions also include some mid and long term thinking. On that time scale any politicization of trade is going to accelerate competitors and incentivize everyone to look towards alternatives. That's basically what's happened in software already. A major reason the US has had sustained influence in the world without using much force is because it has not weaponized trade. It's the reason for the strength of the dollar, the dominance of US tech and finance, and so on. Throwing that away to merely stagger a country that's destined to catch up eventually doesn't seem wise.

ngc248 4y ago
>>> A major reason the US has had sustained influence in the world without using much force is because it has not weaponized trade Are you sure? All the economic sanctions which the US heaps on "enemy state"s are nothing but weaponizing trade.

School-Cotton 4y ago

Neither does the US.

tristan957 4y ago
Have you missed the announcements by Intel, Samsung, Micron, and TSMC to build new fabs in the US? US semiconductor manufacturing has a bright future. The next decade will see an amazing push.