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Why is domestic solar so expensive in the US? I've a 6.4kwp plus 5kwh battery system and it cost me 9k. I've heard prices of 40k to 70k for us domeestic (roof t

Why is domestic solar so expensive in the US? I've a 6.4kwp plus 5kwh battery system and it cost me 9k. I've heard prices of 40k to 70k for us domeestic (roof top) installs my brother in law, who lives in the US, told me he was quoted. His roof is not that big, so I estimate less than 8kwp. That's 4x to 7x the price I paid in Europe, so why so expensive? Solar in a heatwave sounds like a great thing to have.

inferiorhuman 4y ago
At least in the Bay Area I think a large part of the problem with residential solar is simply local red tape. Systemwide though solar can be a pretty large chunk of the power grid. Right now renewables are about a third of the current electricity supply (and I believe historically it's topped out at closer to 80-90% under the right conditions) with solar being 80% of that. http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.aspx http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.aspx
ch4s3 4y ago
Tariffs and higher labor costs.
- tails4e 4y ago
  As posted above, for a 6.4kp major raw material cost, retail, is 6.5k. 14 450w panels at 200ea (2.8k), inverter at 1.6k, battery at 2.1k, is 6.5k. Some roofing mounts etc needed too, but that's a few hundred at most. So unless labour is about 5k per person per day, it's hard to see how 30k is even close to justified. And don't forget these companies are buying the materials cheaper than you or I can.
  - ch4s3 4y ago
    Tariffs are a larger factor.
    - tails4e 4y ago
      Can you be specific, on the prices I listed, even with 100% tarrifs, its still 11k of materials. Why shoukd someone pay 20k to install for a days work?
      - ch4s3 4y ago
        The tariffs are up to a monstrous 250%, but were paused last month, I believe to try and drive down install costs.
SECProto 4y ago
Just to confirm you're comparing like-to-like: Is yours also rooftop? And was it also installed professionally? Those add a huge amount to the cost. The high end of your BIL's quote is high, but the low end sounds roughly correct (I'd estimate 30k-40k). Labour costs can vary, so if he is in a high cost of living area, that could add to it. Other possible factors would be if a service upgrade (eg 100A to 200A, meter change, etc) would need to be paid.
- tails4e 4y ago
  Mine is rooftop and was installed professionally. One days work for 2 roofers and 1 electrician, not exactly a huge labour cost, surely. Raw material cost is about 6k (inverter, panels, battery) so at 9k that's 3k for one days install. Not a bad profit, so why is 30k reasonable cost in the US?
  - AstralStorm 4y ago
    You probably skipped the certification that allows you to sell power back to the grid... But maybe not.
    - tails4e 4y ago
      Mine was done by a certified electrician, all above board, and I can sell it back to the grid.
  - SECProto 4y ago
    I'm in Canada not the US. I had relatives get rooftop solar, bigger system but not significantly (I think around 10kW). It took them 2 or 3 days to do the install for a crew of ~6 (over 2 trips), plus another 3 visits by the contractor and a utilities inspector - once beforehand, once following mounting system and wiring install, and a third time following completion before it could be connected. Don't know material cost, but the full system was somewhere around $40k (I guess that's Canadian $, so subtract a few $ to get USD). This was with an asphalt shingle roof, so it'd be more for metal or tile. You could ask your BIL if the estimates he received had any breakdown. Edit: there may have been an electric panel or service upgrade rolled into my relatives cost
dcow 4y ago
I just ran across the same thing. Tesla quotes a little under 30k for a 12kWH system, which seems pretty fair/honest. But I also got a quote from some other company and they wanted 70k for a 9.6kWH system. How can you have a 40k difference for a worse system? I actually think it's because the economics of solar are, in fact, really good. Plus there's a 26% (or something) national tax rebate if you install solar right now. That's a straight up rebate (cash in pocket), not an income credit. Because things are good, there's lots of wiggle room for people be taken advantage of. I don't really know how to details work out but when you get "solar loan" financing involved a lot of weird stuff happens. All of a sudden you can afford a 60k loan every month because it's basically what you pay during peak usage anyway, and the loan hides in the value of the house when you sell it, and why not get some instant cash from the government rebate? It doesn't matter that the system only actually costs 12k to install. You paid 60k and that's what the government knows and future buyers won't even question it because it's like a $40 difference on their mortgage payment. Everyone in the middle gets a cut, the company profits, the sales rep gets commission, you get a rebate and future homeowners get the bill, nice! I don't even think it's necessarily nefarious. There's just a lot of room once you're going to finance something. I'd recommend cutting out the middlemen. Go straight to the source. Or just buy the hardware and talk to a roofing company and electrician.
- tails4e 4y ago
  At those prices I'd definitely be doing it myself with 'direct labour'. It's amazing no company has come in with installs for 20k, there would be loads of profit still, and they would get many more customers. It's interesting the rebat is a % and not a per Kwp amount. Because 26% of 70k is 17k, which as a fixed amount is actually enough to cover the full install (at non rip of prices). So the govt could fund solar install up to (say) 10kwp fully, regulate the price to 17k, and the homeowners pay 0. Solar would be everywhere. It seems wasteful to spend the money and get less back for it, which is what is happening now.

inferiorhuman 4y ago

At least in the Bay Area I think a large part of the problem with residential solar is simply local red tape. Systemwide though solar can be a pretty large chunk of the power grid. Right now renewables are about a third of the current electricity supply (and I believe historically it's topped out at closer to 80-90% under the right conditions) with solar being 80% of that. http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.aspx http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.aspx

ch4s3 4y ago

Tariffs and higher labor costs.

tails4e 4y ago
As posted above, for a 6.4kp major raw material cost, retail, is 6.5k. 14 450w panels at 200ea (2.8k), inverter at 1.6k, battery at 2.1k, is 6.5k. Some roofing mounts etc needed too, but that's a few hundred at most. So unless labour is about 5k per person per day, it's hard to see how 30k is even close to justified. And don't forget these companies are buying the materials cheaper than you or I can.
- ch4s3 4y ago
  Tariffs are a larger factor.
  - tails4e 4y ago
    Can you be specific, on the prices I listed, even with 100% tarrifs, its still 11k of materials. Why shoukd someone pay 20k to install for a days work?
    - ch4s3 4y ago
      The tariffs are up to a monstrous 250%, but were paused last month, I believe to try and drive down install costs.

SECProto 4y ago

Just to confirm you're comparing like-to-like: Is yours also rooftop? And was it also installed professionally? Those add a huge amount to the cost. The high end of your BIL's quote is high, but the low end sounds roughly correct (I'd estimate 30k-40k). Labour costs can vary, so if he is in a high cost of living area, that could add to it. Other possible factors would be if a service upgrade (eg 100A to 200A, meter change, etc) would need to be paid.

tails4e 4y ago
Mine is rooftop and was installed professionally. One days work for 2 roofers and 1 electrician, not exactly a huge labour cost, surely. Raw material cost is about 6k (inverter, panels, battery) so at 9k that's 3k for one days install. Not a bad profit, so why is 30k reasonable cost in the US?
- AstralStorm 4y ago
  You probably skipped the certification that allows you to sell power back to the grid... But maybe not.
  - tails4e 4y ago
    Mine was done by a certified electrician, all above board, and I can sell it back to the grid.
- SECProto 4y ago
  I'm in Canada not the US. I had relatives get rooftop solar, bigger system but not significantly (I think around 10kW). It took them 2 or 3 days to do the install for a crew of ~6 (over 2 trips), plus another 3 visits by the contractor and a utilities inspector - once beforehand, once following mounting system and wiring install, and a third time following completion before it could be connected. Don't know material cost, but the full system was somewhere around $40k (I guess that's Canadian $, so subtract a few $ to get USD). This was with an asphalt shingle roof, so it'd be more for metal or tile. You could ask your BIL if the estimates he received had any breakdown. Edit: there may have been an electric panel or service upgrade rolled into my relatives cost

dcow 4y ago

I just ran across the same thing. Tesla quotes a little under 30k for a 12kWH system, which seems pretty fair/honest. But I also got a quote from some other company and they wanted 70k for a 9.6kWH system. How can you have a 40k difference for a worse system? I actually think it's because the economics of solar are, in fact, really good. Plus there's a 26% (or something) national tax rebate if you install solar right now. That's a straight up rebate (cash in pocket), not an income credit. Because things are good, there's lots of wiggle room for people be taken advantage of. I don't really know how to details work out but when you get "solar loan" financing involved a lot of weird stuff happens. All of a sudden you can afford a 60k loan every month because it's basically what you pay during peak usage anyway, and the loan hides in the value of the house when you sell it, and why not get some instant cash from the government rebate? It doesn't matter that the system only actually costs 12k to install. You paid 60k and that's what the government knows and future buyers won't even question it because it's like a $40 difference on their mortgage payment. Everyone in the middle gets a cut, the company profits, the sales rep gets commission, you get a rebate and future homeowners get the bill, nice! I don't even think it's necessarily nefarious. There's just a lot of room once you're going to finance something. I'd recommend cutting out the middlemen. Go straight to the source. Or just buy the hardware and talk to a roofing company and electrician.

tails4e 4y ago
At those prices I'd definitely be doing it myself with 'direct labour'. It's amazing no company has come in with installs for 20k, there would be loads of profit still, and they would get many more customers. It's interesting the rebat is a % and not a per Kwp amount. Because 26% of 70k is 17k, which as a fixed amount is actually enough to cover the full install (at non rip of prices). So the govt could fund solar install up to (say) 10kwp fully, regulate the price to 17k, and the homeowners pay 0. Solar would be everywhere. It seems wasteful to spend the money and get less back for it, which is what is happening now.