5 ms·

Covid (not the infection, the social phenomenon) short circuited many people's ability to have a rational discussion. See the example from this thread, someone

Covid (not the infection, the social phenomenon) short circuited many people's ability to have a rational discussion. See the example from this thread, someone asks an apparently earnest question and gets a ridiculously disproportionate response. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32668716 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32668716 In all serious I feel like a group has been "radicalized" from all the government propaganda, and never got talked back down, and now we're living through the consequences, in online discussion particularly, for some reason...

redeeman 4y ago
it has been a multi-pronged assault on people. they have appealed to people who love to have any authority over others, because now they have a personal "moral high ground" to impose restrictions and their will on others. they have appealed to what is probably mostly those that are intellectuals (or percieve themselves to be) with the whole "trust the science" crowd. At the same time we conveniently forget all the evidence of how science has been deeply corrupted, and "well the science changed". but it has also, very frighteningly so, exposed that people have almost no memory, and way too high trust in authorities. looking back at all the directly insane things governments have done and pushed their citizens to endure, it has also often come with "trust the science" or whatever equivelant thing used back then. Would you line up for the DDT spraying in the streets now? and lead was surely safe in the gasoline. but now of course things are different! the government couldnt possibly be wrong now? and if you think they might be? SCIENCE DENIER YOU ARE KILLING GRANDMA!!!! people have reverted to tribal mentality, and there was enough tribes that several people could find a spot they identified with.
- somewhereoutth 4y ago
  Or, a bunch of people tried to do what was best for everyone, as far as they were able, meanwhile another bunch of people were pissed they couldn't go to Wendy's. Let's face it, if all Covid needed was a simple pill (that you took after infection, so no need to even think) then no one would have made the slightest fuss. Public health is firstly of prime importance, and secondly something that only collective action can really secure. 'Personal responsibility' won't cut it. This must be a nasty shock to those who were told it was ok to be selfish. Of course, not many people are likely to own up to selfishness, even to themselves, so they dress it up with 'science is wrong' 'don't trust the government' 'they are trying to control us' etc etc. I note in passing that life expectancy continues to fall in the US, while recovering in peer nations.
  - spookthesunset 4y ago
    > meanwhile another bunch of people were pissed they couldn't go to Wendy's It's this kind of dismissive attitude that really grinds peoples gears. There is a lot of reasons to be pissed about what society did besides "getting a haircut". For example, we absolutely completely fucked over the younger people when they weren't even an at-risk population. > not many people are likely to own up to selfishness I assert the most selfish people were those who expected all of society to shut down because they expected everybody to be as fearful as they were. It is very selfish to make that ask. And plus, these public health "experts" are unelected and unaccountable. They have absolutely no right to impose any of what they did for more than two years. Especially given none of them could assert any of their mandates even worked in a way that was worth the huge costs. Dismissing skeptics like myself in the way you did in your comment is incredibly condesending and sanctimonious. It's downright terrifying that voices like yours were allowed to dominate the discussions over the last two years. It's bullying and abusive.
  - redeeman 4y ago
    > I note in passing that life expectancy continues to fall in the US, while recovering in peer nations. yeah, nations like Sweden that was very very very light on these lockdowns.. perhaps you'd entertain the idea that it is not related? :)
spookthesunset 4y ago
> I feel like a group has been "radicalized" from all the government propaganda, and never got talked back down At this point which group you are talking about could be anybody. All I can personally say is I’m still incredibly pissed off at being told to shut the fuck up and obey some “authority”. I’ve been yelled at, followed by nutjobs with cameras for the crime of taking my mask off while leaving a building, I’ve had people accuse me of being some alt-right kook. I’m especially pissed because the people who told me that (many in real life) were people I used to consider rational, intelligent people. I’ll never trust those people again. So yeah, a lot of “skeptics”, most of which are just normal fucking people, are pretty god damn pissed off at how we were gaslit, dismissed and abused. A lot of people owe us a huge apology for being such absolute assholes.
throwaway908232 4y ago
Agreed. Steven Pinker had some comments about this -- I recommend his new book. We essentially experienced two pandemics, one of which was unreason. Some examples: * Permitting Public Assembly (for BLM), but then damning public assembly for other reasons (such as religion). * Characterizing the lab leak covid origin theory as racism.
- archagon 4y ago
  Outside vs. inside assembly. Obviously.
  - throwaway908232 4y ago
    Another good example.
    - archagon 4y ago
      Another zinger by some anonymous rando on the internet. Aerosols don't accumulate outdoors.

redeeman 4y ago

it has been a multi-pronged assault on people. they have appealed to people who love to have any authority over others, because now they have a personal "moral high ground" to impose restrictions and their will on others. they have appealed to what is probably mostly those that are intellectuals (or percieve themselves to be) with the whole "trust the science" crowd. At the same time we conveniently forget all the evidence of how science has been deeply corrupted, and "well the science changed". but it has also, very frighteningly so, exposed that people have almost no memory, and way too high trust in authorities. looking back at all the directly insane things governments have done and pushed their citizens to endure, it has also often come with "trust the science" or whatever equivelant thing used back then. Would you line up for the DDT spraying in the streets now? and lead was surely safe in the gasoline. but now of course things are different! the government couldnt possibly be wrong now? and if you think they might be? SCIENCE DENIER YOU ARE KILLING GRANDMA!!!! people have reverted to tribal mentality, and there was enough tribes that several people could find a spot they identified with.

somewhereoutth 4y ago
Or, a bunch of people tried to do what was best for everyone, as far as they were able, meanwhile another bunch of people were pissed they couldn't go to Wendy's. Let's face it, if all Covid needed was a simple pill (that you took after infection, so no need to even think) then no one would have made the slightest fuss. Public health is firstly of prime importance, and secondly something that only collective action can really secure. 'Personal responsibility' won't cut it. This must be a nasty shock to those who were told it was ok to be selfish. Of course, not many people are likely to own up to selfishness, even to themselves, so they dress it up with 'science is wrong' 'don't trust the government' 'they are trying to control us' etc etc. I note in passing that life expectancy continues to fall in the US, while recovering in peer nations.
- spookthesunset 4y ago
  > meanwhile another bunch of people were pissed they couldn't go to Wendy's It's this kind of dismissive attitude that really grinds peoples gears. There is a lot of reasons to be pissed about what society did besides "getting a haircut". For example, we absolutely completely fucked over the younger people when they weren't even an at-risk population. > not many people are likely to own up to selfishness I assert the most selfish people were those who expected all of society to shut down because they expected everybody to be as fearful as they were. It is very selfish to make that ask. And plus, these public health "experts" are unelected and unaccountable. They have absolutely no right to impose any of what they did for more than two years. Especially given none of them could assert any of their mandates even worked in a way that was worth the huge costs. Dismissing skeptics like myself in the way you did in your comment is incredibly condesending and sanctimonious. It's downright terrifying that voices like yours were allowed to dominate the discussions over the last two years. It's bullying and abusive.
- redeeman 4y ago
  > I note in passing that life expectancy continues to fall in the US, while recovering in peer nations. yeah, nations like Sweden that was very very very light on these lockdowns.. perhaps you'd entertain the idea that it is not related? :)

spookthesunset 4y ago

> I feel like a group has been "radicalized" from all the government propaganda, and never got talked back down At this point which group you are talking about could be anybody. All I can personally say is I’m still incredibly pissed off at being told to shut the fuck up and obey some “authority”. I’ve been yelled at, followed by nutjobs with cameras for the crime of taking my mask off while leaving a building, I’ve had people accuse me of being some alt-right kook. I’m especially pissed because the people who told me that (many in real life) were people I used to consider rational, intelligent people. I’ll never trust those people again. So yeah, a lot of “skeptics”, most of which are just normal fucking people, are pretty god damn pissed off at how we were gaslit, dismissed and abused. A lot of people owe us a huge apology for being such absolute assholes.

throwaway908232 4y ago

Agreed. Steven Pinker had some comments about this -- I recommend his new book. We essentially experienced two pandemics, one of which was unreason. Some examples: * Permitting Public Assembly (for BLM), but then damning public assembly for other reasons (such as religion). * Characterizing the lab leak covid origin theory as racism.

archagon 4y ago
Outside vs. inside assembly. Obviously.
- throwaway908232 4y ago
  Another good example.
  - archagon 4y ago
    Another zinger by some anonymous rando on the internet. Aerosols don't accumulate outdoors.