5 ms·

what exactly is the endgame?

quadcore 4y ago
Good question. As an educational note, please be careful and tell your kids some - unbalanced - people have no other endgame than to annoy you and play with your emotions. To destroy you mentally (sometimes physically as well). Thats their kick. Pretty sure this applies in this case as well. Dont get me wrong, they are humans and deserve respect.
- dexwiz 4y ago
  > Dont get me wrong, they are humans and deserve respect. But why? I feel like we devalue true respect by repeating phrases like this. I'm not saying they deserve to be abused, but why do they deserve respect for solely existing? EDIT: All the replies seem to be conflating dignity with respect. Your birth gave you the right to your dignity, and no should be able to take that from you. Respect must be earned, and can only be given to you by others.
  - ElevenLathe 4y ago
    If we don't have some base level of respect for people just because they're people ("for solely existing") then we can justify treating marginalized people even worse than we already are. Some of them already have it pretty bad! Seems evil!
    - dahfizz 4y ago
      This goes back to OPs point about devaluing the concept of respect. I'm generally polite to stangers I meet. Not because I respect them (how could I? I don't know them), but because it's morally good to behave decently. By conflating respect with basic manners/decency, you really devalue what it means to deserve respect and to be respected.
      - dexwiz 4y ago
        You treat others with dignity.
  - LadyCailin 4y ago
    Paradox of tolerance.
  - bobkazamakis 4y ago
    this entirely relies on your own interpretation of respect. respecting nature sometimes means staying the fuck away
  - quadcore 4y ago
    You think you are not like them because of your choices when it's actually because of sheer luck. I respect them for carrying such a shitty poker hand their whole life. Anyway, you still gota defend yourself like they are monsters. Tell your kids: they are masterful liers and manipulators, they look normal, they have a cover (they have jobs and all, they can go undetected for decades, their whole life even) and more importantly: pain is pleasure, even theirs, especially yours (not always physically but mentally as well). That last bit is the endgame but you and me dont have that so its very difficult to comprehend. They come in variations (think Joker and DoubleFace). Oh and one last thing: they are not rare (between 0.7% and 1% of the population afaik).
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    There's a baseline of respect people get for being human, they have wants, needs, beliefs, belong to cultures, they get hungry, feel pain, don't want to needlessly suffer or die, etc and those aspects are universal. I'd use the word humanity to describe that level of respect, to contrast it with something more or less universally regarded as the lack of humanity, things we might even consider crimes against humanity, where people are deprived of the respect towards their humanity, denying them food, inflicting pain, eradication of culture, systematic murder, etc. Obviously there's a lot of gray room between the two where, for example, cruelty for the sake of cruelty, in most circumstances, could be considered a lack of respect that people deserve for solely existing. That's certainly not on the level of crimes against humanity, but I wouldn't say that's respectful, either.
    - dexwiz 4y ago
      What you are describing is dignity, not respect. From https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dignity/201304/what-is-the-real-meaning-dignity-0 https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dignity/201304/what-... "The most common response people offer is that dignity is about respect. To the contrary, dignity is not the same as respect. Dignity is our inherent value and worth as human beings; everyone is born with it. Respect, on the other hand, is earned through one’s actions."
      - heavyset_go 4y ago
        You're right, thanks for the link.
- conductr 4y ago
  Ironically, this is similar to how regular people think of "hackers"
tschwimmer 4y ago
I imagine either: a) Get hired, collect a paycheck or two while doing the absolute bare minimum (filling out onboarding forms, etc - no real work) and then move on to the next victim company. or b) Get hired with the goal of getting access to improperly secured company or user data. I imagine a) is vastly more common than b).
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  With b), they are actually likely to be the real thing; just treacherous.
  - ByersReason 4y ago
    It seems based on the two times I saw it that it is mostly delusion. The idea appears to be that you can learn to do something complex on the job with a slight amount of experience and a lookup site, like stackoverflow or rose. I assume this would be sufficient if you assume really non-technical management, incapable of gauging progress.
- version_five 4y ago
  It could also be to get the job. People often feel entitled but believe they are disadvantaged by some factor outside their control and use that to justify cheating, believing they will be able to do the job once they get there. Another version of this is people who apply for a job and actually are just posers who can't code at all. In both cases the employer failed to weed them out, even if the first version is a more overt kind of cheating, the outcome isn't much different than the second version
  - csunbird 4y ago
    But, the thing is, the companies are putting down very sophisticated hiring methods that are not relevant to the job itself at all (e.g. hiring someone that can write quicksort in 30 minutes). I presume, after passing the gatekeepers, most of the people can hold and do the job required from them at bare minimum. The fakers who can not code at all will be found, but someone with an average amount of talent should be able to collect the fat paycheck for several years, as most of the jobs do not require much anyways.
heavyset_go 4y ago
There are a lot of people who believe they can fake it until they make it, and they also often think that everyone fakes it until they make it, as well. That's the end game, doing whatever it takes until they make it.
- Spooky23 4y ago
  Once they make it into an organization, they often do very well.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    Perhaps, but I've seen more than a handful of the hustle culture types crash and burn once they could no longer fake it sufficiently. Some things you really do need the knowledge, experience and time spent on to navigate successfully, and you just can't fake that consistently as time goes on, especially around other people who do have that knowledge and experience.
- mr_toad 4y ago
  Pretty much every new grad is faking it until they make it.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    I'd agree if, outside of nepotism, new grads were faking it into senior or higher level positions that necessitate knowledge and experience that they truly don't possess.
throwaway787544 4y ago
If they get the person in the door (hired) a chunk of their paycheck goes to the referring agency. And a month employed might be a year's salary back home.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Good question. As an educational note, please be careful and tell your kids some - unbalanced - people have no other endgame than to annoy you and play with your emotions. To destroy you mentally (sometimes physically as well). Thats their kick. Pretty sure this applies in this case as well. Dont get me wrong, they are humans and deserve respect.

dexwiz 4y ago
> Dont get me wrong, they are humans and deserve respect. But why? I feel like we devalue true respect by repeating phrases like this. I'm not saying they deserve to be abused, but why do they deserve respect for solely existing? EDIT: All the replies seem to be conflating dignity with respect. Your birth gave you the right to your dignity, and no should be able to take that from you. Respect must be earned, and can only be given to you by others.
- ElevenLathe 4y ago
  If we don't have some base level of respect for people just because they're people ("for solely existing") then we can justify treating marginalized people even worse than we already are. Some of them already have it pretty bad! Seems evil!
  - dahfizz 4y ago
    This goes back to OPs point about devaluing the concept of respect. I'm generally polite to stangers I meet. Not because I respect them (how could I? I don't know them), but because it's morally good to behave decently. By conflating respect with basic manners/decency, you really devalue what it means to deserve respect and to be respected.
    - dexwiz 4y ago
      You treat others with dignity.
- LadyCailin 4y ago
  Paradox of tolerance.
- bobkazamakis 4y ago
  this entirely relies on your own interpretation of respect. respecting nature sometimes means staying the fuck away
- quadcore 4y ago
  You think you are not like them because of your choices when it's actually because of sheer luck. I respect them for carrying such a shitty poker hand their whole life. Anyway, you still gota defend yourself like they are monsters. Tell your kids: they are masterful liers and manipulators, they look normal, they have a cover (they have jobs and all, they can go undetected for decades, their whole life even) and more importantly: pain is pleasure, even theirs, especially yours (not always physically but mentally as well). That last bit is the endgame but you and me dont have that so its very difficult to comprehend. They come in variations (think Joker and DoubleFace). Oh and one last thing: they are not rare (between 0.7% and 1% of the population afaik).
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  There's a baseline of respect people get for being human, they have wants, needs, beliefs, belong to cultures, they get hungry, feel pain, don't want to needlessly suffer or die, etc and those aspects are universal. I'd use the word humanity to describe that level of respect, to contrast it with something more or less universally regarded as the lack of humanity, things we might even consider crimes against humanity, where people are deprived of the respect towards their humanity, denying them food, inflicting pain, eradication of culture, systematic murder, etc. Obviously there's a lot of gray room between the two where, for example, cruelty for the sake of cruelty, in most circumstances, could be considered a lack of respect that people deserve for solely existing. That's certainly not on the level of crimes against humanity, but I wouldn't say that's respectful, either.
  - dexwiz 4y ago
    What you are describing is dignity, not respect. From https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dignity/201304/what-is-the-real-meaning-dignity-0 https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dignity/201304/what-... "The most common response people offer is that dignity is about respect. To the contrary, dignity is not the same as respect. Dignity is our inherent value and worth as human beings; everyone is born with it. Respect, on the other hand, is earned through one’s actions."
    - heavyset_go 4y ago
      You're right, thanks for the link.
conductr 4y ago
Ironically, this is similar to how regular people think of "hackers"

tschwimmer 4y ago

I imagine either: a) Get hired, collect a paycheck or two while doing the absolute bare minimum (filling out onboarding forms, etc - no real work) and then move on to the next victim company. or b) Get hired with the goal of getting access to improperly secured company or user data. I imagine a) is vastly more common than b).

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
With b), they are actually likely to be the real thing; just treacherous.
- ByersReason 4y ago
  It seems based on the two times I saw it that it is mostly delusion. The idea appears to be that you can learn to do something complex on the job with a slight amount of experience and a lookup site, like stackoverflow or rose. I assume this would be sufficient if you assume really non-technical management, incapable of gauging progress.
version_five 4y ago
It could also be to get the job. People often feel entitled but believe they are disadvantaged by some factor outside their control and use that to justify cheating, believing they will be able to do the job once they get there. Another version of this is people who apply for a job and actually are just posers who can't code at all. In both cases the employer failed to weed them out, even if the first version is a more overt kind of cheating, the outcome isn't much different than the second version
- csunbird 4y ago
  But, the thing is, the companies are putting down very sophisticated hiring methods that are not relevant to the job itself at all (e.g. hiring someone that can write quicksort in 30 minutes). I presume, after passing the gatekeepers, most of the people can hold and do the job required from them at bare minimum. The fakers who can not code at all will be found, but someone with an average amount of talent should be able to collect the fat paycheck for several years, as most of the jobs do not require much anyways.

heavyset_go 4y ago

There are a lot of people who believe they can fake it until they make it, and they also often think that everyone fakes it until they make it, as well. That's the end game, doing whatever it takes until they make it.

Spooky23 4y ago
Once they make it into an organization, they often do very well.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  Perhaps, but I've seen more than a handful of the hustle culture types crash and burn once they could no longer fake it sufficiently. Some things you really do need the knowledge, experience and time spent on to navigate successfully, and you just can't fake that consistently as time goes on, especially around other people who do have that knowledge and experience.
mr_toad 4y ago
Pretty much every new grad is faking it until they make it.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  I'd agree if, outside of nepotism, new grads were faking it into senior or higher level positions that necessitate knowledge and experience that they truly don't possess.

throwaway787544 4y ago

If they get the person in the door (hired) a chunk of their paycheck goes to the referring agency. And a month employed might be a year's salary back home.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]