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This reeks of "both-siding" which is insanely frustrating for me. Look, I get opening a can of worms and "stay out of my business" but at the same time, we need

This reeks of "both-siding" which is insanely frustrating for me. Look, I get opening a can of worms and "stay out of my business" but at the same time, we need to be able as a society be able to and be unafraid to say when things are clearly bad. "Nazism is bad" EOM That wasn't so hard, was it?

colechristensen 4y ago
It is not "both siding". I do not want corporations acting as government regardless of whose side they are on. I do not want to normalize or encourage such regulation by corporation. If some behavior is so bad, advocate for a law against it or for the enforcement of that law. If it is not so bad, let it exist even if you don't like it. The whole thing about rule by the people is that having individuals or small groups that get to arbitrarily make rules and enforce them is bad. Monarchy and despotism is bad, whether or not you like what they're doing. Despotism by corporation is just as bad and shouldn't be encouraged. It's not different because you're trying to get them to arbitrarily create rules that agree with you.
protomyth 4y ago
How about social media mobs unfairly categorizes people and corporations that listen to mobs or committees are untrustworthy. we need to be able as a society be able to and be unafraid to say when things are clearly bad. Sadly, "disagrees with me" is considered bad and called vile insults these days.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago
[flagged]
boppo1 4y ago
Have you ever heard of Godwin's law?
saas_sam 4y ago
Why do you think the generation who actually fought and died against Nazis nevertheless held that displaying a Nazi flag is protected speech in America? Do you think you understand something they didn't? Were they naive? Are you perhaps more intimately connected to the evils of Nazism than they were? Maybe they didn't understand that an entire country could fall to the evils of Nazism if they were not stamped out aggressively? Or. Maybe they understood these things even better than you. And maybe they believed freedom of speech is even more anti-Nazi than banning Nazis.
throw_a_grenade 4y ago
> "Nazism is bad" Yes, it pretty much is. Over here it's against the law to futher it. What's wrong with enshrining this principle in the actual law, that 1) affects the whole society, not just users of one particular corporation, 2) it's enforcement is dispensed by an actual court, not a PR department pushed by a twitter mob?
- amrocha 4y ago
  Whose law? US law? KF operates outside the US. Are you ok with the US government deciding what's allowed on the internet and what isn't? What if the US government believes it's totally ok to murder trans people? Do we have to keep waiting for a law in that case too?
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    Is it reachable within the US? Are people interacting with US persons? Are you doing business with US companies (i.e. Cloudflare)? Then you're crossing the border and operating in the US. >What if the US government believes it's totally ok to murder trans people? It doesn't. You don't need an adjective between murder and people. Also, harassing someone to the point of suicide isn't murder, it can be manslaughter. No new laws are needed. Go bother your local DA or US attorney or legislative representatives to get charges filed for the actual harassment and the conspiracy to harass that lead to what should probably be manslaughter charges. Make actual differences and actually hold the people who do these things accountable. Don't go cheerleading for Cloudflare to do something meaningless that wouldn't and won't stop any of this in the future.

colechristensen 4y ago

It is not "both siding". I do not want corporations acting as government regardless of whose side they are on. I do not want to normalize or encourage such regulation by corporation. If some behavior is so bad, advocate for a law against it or for the enforcement of that law. If it is not so bad, let it exist even if you don't like it. The whole thing about rule by the people is that having individuals or small groups that get to arbitrarily make rules and enforce them is bad. Monarchy and despotism is bad, whether or not you like what they're doing. Despotism by corporation is just as bad and shouldn't be encouraged. It's not different because you're trying to get them to arbitrarily create rules that agree with you.

protomyth 4y ago

How about social media mobs unfairly categorizes people and corporations that listen to mobs or committees are untrustworthy. we need to be able as a society be able to and be unafraid to say when things are clearly bad. Sadly, "disagrees with me" is considered bad and called vile insults these days.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago

[flagged]

boppo1 4y ago

Have you ever heard of Godwin's law?

saas_sam 4y ago

Why do you think the generation who actually fought and died against Nazis nevertheless held that displaying a Nazi flag is protected speech in America? Do you think you understand something they didn't? Were they naive? Are you perhaps more intimately connected to the evils of Nazism than they were? Maybe they didn't understand that an entire country could fall to the evils of Nazism if they were not stamped out aggressively? Or. Maybe they understood these things even better than you. And maybe they believed freedom of speech is even more anti-Nazi than banning Nazis.

throw_a_grenade 4y ago

> "Nazism is bad" Yes, it pretty much is. Over here it's against the law to futher it. What's wrong with enshrining this principle in the actual law, that 1) affects the whole society, not just users of one particular corporation, 2) it's enforcement is dispensed by an actual court, not a PR department pushed by a twitter mob?

amrocha 4y ago
Whose law? US law? KF operates outside the US. Are you ok with the US government deciding what's allowed on the internet and what isn't? What if the US government believes it's totally ok to murder trans people? Do we have to keep waiting for a law in that case too?
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Is it reachable within the US? Are people interacting with US persons? Are you doing business with US companies (i.e. Cloudflare)? Then you're crossing the border and operating in the US. >What if the US government believes it's totally ok to murder trans people? It doesn't. You don't need an adjective between murder and people. Also, harassing someone to the point of suicide isn't murder, it can be manslaughter. No new laws are needed. Go bother your local DA or US attorney or legislative representatives to get charges filed for the actual harassment and the conspiracy to harass that lead to what should probably be manslaughter charges. Make actual differences and actually hold the people who do these things accountable. Don't go cheerleading for Cloudflare to do something meaningless that wouldn't and won't stop any of this in the future.