4 ms·

I hear this word all the time “magic”. Can you describe what it means with concrete example for other stacks?

cerved 4y ago
Http request handling in asp.net mvc. The uri, type and parameter serialization is a magic mess. How do you PUT { "foo" : { "bar" : "baz" }} to ping/pong/yolo? You create a controller class, PingController, you create a method PutPong, then you give up and proceed to cry blood
- aliswe 4y ago
  something like app.MapPut("ping/pong/yolo", ctx => ...); and in there you read the Body as string ... it should be a one liner?
- guhidalg 4y ago
  It seems you had a bad time learning ASP.NET, but in my experience what you're asking for is not difficult at all. You have to: 1. [Optional] Define a DTO that deserializes { "foo" : { "bar" : "baz" }} to an object 2. Write a class that subclasses Controller 3. Write a method, call it whatever you want, that accepts a JObject or one of your DTO types. 4. Add the attribute [HttpPut("ping/pong/yolo")] to tell the framework this method should be bound to PUTs for that path. 5. Write your business logic. Is that blood-crying inducing? No.
  - cerved 4y ago
    Without decent documentation, it is.
- neonsunset 4y ago
  app.MapPut("ping/pong/yolo", ([FromBody] Payload request) => {...}); record Payload(Foo Foo); record Foo(string Bar); or app.MapPut("ping/pong/yolo", (JsonElement json) => {...}); Basically, just avoid outdated blog posts and articles :D
  - cerved 4y ago
    this looks like asp.net core
    - neonsunset 4y ago
      No one in their sane mind would use ASP.NET for new projects (it is legacy and a business risk) nowadays so it's reasonable to assume that everyone means ASP.NET Core given the .NET 7 context.
      - cerved 4y ago
        the context was asp.net mvc specifically
        metaltyphoon 4y ago
        ASP.NET MVC is dead. It has been over 6 years; you need to update yourself.
ewjt 4y ago
Magic means “hidden complexity”, AKA “abstraction”. The negative connotation is that sometimes you can’t figure out why your software is behaving a certain way and what you need to do about it. The positive connotation is that you write less code with less cognitive overhead. Generally I prefer ASP.NET over things like Spring and Ruby on Rails because it has less magic, despite being clearly inspired by both of those. Here’s a concrete ASP.NET example: You can put an [ApiController] attribute on your controllers and it can change the structure of error responses, among other things. [1] I don’t agree with some of the other parent points. For example, the comments on “multiple dependency injection container” —- ASP.NET is pretty prescriptive on DI patterns. That sounds like someone made a decision to add complexity, which is on them. [1] https://stackoverflow.com/a/66546105 https://stackoverflow.com/a/66546105
- metaltyphoon 4y ago
  So "non magic" means to write everything then? Because the example you showed you have to understand a language feature, attributes. Then see the source code, which is open, and how it's being used. So, are Rust macros, or C macros, C++ templating magic or it's just means "I don't want to know how this works therefore it's magic"?

Http request handling in asp.net mvc. The uri, type and parameter serialization is a magic mess. How do you PUT { "foo" : { "bar" : "baz" }} to ping/pong/yolo? You create a controller class, PingController, you create a method PutPong, then you give up and proceed to cry blood

aliswe 4y ago
something like app.MapPut("ping/pong/yolo", ctx => ...); and in there you read the Body as string ... it should be a one liner?
guhidalg 4y ago
It seems you had a bad time learning ASP.NET, but in my experience what you're asking for is not difficult at all. You have to: 1. [Optional] Define a DTO that deserializes { "foo" : { "bar" : "baz" }} to an object 2. Write a class that subclasses Controller 3. Write a method, call it whatever you want, that accepts a JObject or one of your DTO types. 4. Add the attribute [HttpPut("ping/pong/yolo")] to tell the framework this method should be bound to PUTs for that path. 5. Write your business logic. Is that blood-crying inducing? No.
- cerved 4y ago
  Without decent documentation, it is.
neonsunset 4y ago
app.MapPut("ping/pong/yolo", ([FromBody] Payload request) => {...}); record Payload(Foo Foo); record Foo(string Bar); or app.MapPut("ping/pong/yolo", (JsonElement json) => {...}); Basically, just avoid outdated blog posts and articles :D
- cerved 4y ago
  this looks like asp.net core
  - neonsunset 4y ago
    No one in their sane mind would use ASP.NET for new projects (it is legacy and a business risk) nowadays so it's reasonable to assume that everyone means ASP.NET Core given the .NET 7 context.
    - cerved 4y ago
      the context was asp.net mvc specifically
      - metaltyphoon 4y ago
        ASP.NET MVC is dead. It has been over 6 years; you need to update yourself.

ewjt 4y ago

Magic means “hidden complexity”, AKA “abstraction”. The negative connotation is that sometimes you can’t figure out why your software is behaving a certain way and what you need to do about it. The positive connotation is that you write less code with less cognitive overhead. Generally I prefer ASP.NET over things like Spring and Ruby on Rails because it has less magic, despite being clearly inspired by both of those. Here’s a concrete ASP.NET example: You can put an [ApiController] attribute on your controllers and it can change the structure of error responses, among other things. [1] I don’t agree with some of the other parent points. For example, the comments on “multiple dependency injection container” —- ASP.NET is pretty prescriptive on DI patterns. That sounds like someone made a decision to add complexity, which is on them. [1] https://stackoverflow.com/a/66546105 https://stackoverflow.com/a/66546105

metaltyphoon 4y ago
So "non magic" means to write everything then? Because the example you showed you have to understand a language feature, attributes. Then see the source code, which is open, and how it's being used. So, are Rust macros, or C macros, C++ templating magic or it's just means "I don't want to know how this works therefore it's magic"?