4 ms·

Where I live, elderly people who are used to not having AC (esp. from the time when intense heat was rarer here) often do not appreciate the importance of keepi

by kixiQu 4y ago

Where I live, elderly people who are used to not having AC (esp. from the time when intense heat was rarer here) often do not appreciate the importance of keeping their own climate controlled. It isn't actually always easy to tell when you're causing already-impaired organs a lot of stress. A lot of the heat-induced deaths occur as "sudden" heart attacks or strokes. I think you and I agree that for e.g. a young healthy person it's bad and wasteful to keep the same temperature control. However, the comment to which I responded doesn't have the disclaimers you've added; it contributes to a "people should be able to tough it out" narrative that we shouldn't perpetuate when in reality, people are dying unnecessarily.

colechristensen 4y ago
Yes, if you are elderly or have otherwise compromised health, heat will kill you, because that's just a thing. As your body degrades you get less good at regulating your temperature and need support. That's just a different topic from "I can't live without air conditioning", which, healthy people can. And specifically, pushing yourself to be in a particularly hot environment for a couple of weeks can significantly expand your heat tolerance.
- kixiQu 4y ago
  So then this becomes a question of: is it responsible to talk about this with the general "you" as though unhealthy young people or healthy elderly people don't exist, as the parent comment did? To create a perception of AC being generally decadent that discourages it for all, including those who may not know they need it? I'd say it's not a small caveat to elide. Something like one out of ten people around the world is over 65. In the US, something like one out of four. That's a huge chunk of humanity, not a corner case to handwave.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    No. You have to be unhealthy to the extent that it probably isn’t safe for you to live alone and walking across a room is an accomplishment. That’s when you start to worry. Not being an overweight and sedentary young person exaggerating the suffering of being in an 80 degree room.
    - kixiQu 4y ago
      > You have to be unhealthy to the extent that it probably isn’t safe for you to live alone and walking across a room is an accomplishment. Citation needed.
      - colechristensen 4y ago
        Your own citation, 700 deaths annually out of a country of just under 330 million. If only ~2 in a million die of heat or heat contributed causes per year, either people without air conditioning are incredibly rare (they’re not) or there have to be fairly extreme circumstances to risk death. Do you really need more evidence or are you just being obtuse? Do you actually think healthy or even most unhealthy adults are risking death without AC in any but the most extreme circumstances?
        kixiQu 4y ago
        If you have formed the opinion that it's not warranted to omit the scorn when you talk about people using AC, or to learn more about how it might be warranted, then that's pretty much that. If anyone else has clicked into the thread for whatever reason and wants to learn, here are resources I'd recommend. US-centric, sorry. * https://health2016.globalchange.gov/low/ClimateHealth2016_02_Temperature_small.pdf https://health2016.globalchange.gov/low/ClimateHealth2016_02... - connects with climate change projections, talks a bit about how even sub-"extreme" heat conditions can lead to health issues * https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/tracking/topics/Heat.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/tracking/topics/Heat.htm - pretty cool data resources * https://www.cdc.gov/climateandhealth/docs/UseOfCoolingCenters.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/climateandhealth/docs/UseOfCoolingCenter... - esp. in places like AZ where the need is really really clear, "cooling centers" are becoming a thing. * https://www.nationalpartnership.org/our-work/resources/health-care/higher-temperatures-hurt-moms-and-babies.pdf https://www.nationalpartnership.org/our-work/resources/healt... - Heat and pregnancy go together really badly. This piece is kind of lobbying, so less reputable than the CDC stuff, but aggregates some pretty eye-popping statistics; citations on page 5. * https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/full/10.1289/EHP6221 https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/full/10.1289/EHP6221 - preterm births, low birth weights, heart defects – bleak stuff. * https://www.acf.hhs.gov/ocs/policy-guidance/liheap-im-2022-06-heat-stress-flexibilities-and-resources-fy2022 https://www.acf.hhs.gov/ocs/policy-guidance/liheap-im-2022-0... - the programs that used to mainly just help low-income households afford energy bills are being directed to help afford AC equipment/installation as well. If you know someone who needs this help, start at https://liheapch.acf.hhs.gov/search-tool/ https://liheapch.acf.hhs.gov/search-tool/ * https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/heatstress/acclima.html https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/heatstress/acclima.html - NIOSH has some useful recommendations about how to acclimatize to heat safely. ("acclimatize" being the individual body ramping up its ability to deal with heat – interestingly, when people in this field use the word "adapt", increasing AC penetration is one of the things that goes into that)

by kixiQu 4y ago

colechristensen 4y ago

Yes, if you are elderly or have otherwise compromised health, heat will kill you, because that's just a thing. As your body degrades you get less good at regulating your temperature and need support. That's just a different topic from "I can't live without air conditioning", which, healthy people can. And specifically, pushing yourself to be in a particularly hot environment for a couple of weeks can significantly expand your heat tolerance.

kixiQu 4y ago
So then this becomes a question of: is it responsible to talk about this with the general "you" as though unhealthy young people or healthy elderly people don't exist, as the parent comment did? To create a perception of AC being generally decadent that discourages it for all, including those who may not know they need it? I'd say it's not a small caveat to elide. Something like one out of ten people around the world is over 65. In the US, something like one out of four. That's a huge chunk of humanity, not a corner case to handwave.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  No. You have to be unhealthy to the extent that it probably isn’t safe for you to live alone and walking across a room is an accomplishment. That’s when you start to worry. Not being an overweight and sedentary young person exaggerating the suffering of being in an 80 degree room.
  - kixiQu 4y ago
    > You have to be unhealthy to the extent that it probably isn’t safe for you to live alone and walking across a room is an accomplishment. Citation needed.
    - colechristensen 4y ago
      Your own citation, 700 deaths annually out of a country of just under 330 million. If only ~2 in a million die of heat or heat contributed causes per year, either people without air conditioning are incredibly rare (they’re not) or there have to be fairly extreme circumstances to risk death. Do you really need more evidence or are you just being obtuse? Do you actually think healthy or even most unhealthy adults are risking death without AC in any but the most extreme circumstances?
      - kixiQu 4y ago
        If you have formed the opinion that it's not warranted to omit the scorn when you talk about people using AC, or to learn more about how it might be warranted, then that's pretty much that. If anyone else has clicked into the thread for whatever reason and wants to learn, here are resources I'd recommend. US-centric, sorry. * https://health2016.globalchange.gov/low/ClimateHealth2016_02_Temperature_small.pdf https://health2016.globalchange.gov/low/ClimateHealth2016_02... - connects with climate change projections, talks a bit about how even sub-"extreme" heat conditions can lead to health issues * https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/tracking/topics/Heat.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/tracking/topics/Heat.htm - pretty cool data resources * https://www.cdc.gov/climateandhealth/docs/UseOfCoolingCenters.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/climateandhealth/docs/UseOfCoolingCenter... - esp. in places like AZ where the need is really really clear, "cooling centers" are becoming a thing. * https://www.nationalpartnership.org/our-work/resources/health-care/higher-temperatures-hurt-moms-and-babies.pdf https://www.nationalpartnership.org/our-work/resources/healt... - Heat and pregnancy go together really badly. This piece is kind of lobbying, so less reputable than the CDC stuff, but aggregates some pretty eye-popping statistics; citations on page 5. * https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/full/10.1289/EHP6221 https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/full/10.1289/EHP6221 - preterm births, low birth weights, heart defects – bleak stuff. * https://www.acf.hhs.gov/ocs/policy-guidance/liheap-im-2022-06-heat-stress-flexibilities-and-resources-fy2022 https://www.acf.hhs.gov/ocs/policy-guidance/liheap-im-2022-0... - the programs that used to mainly just help low-income households afford energy bills are being directed to help afford AC equipment/installation as well. If you know someone who needs this help, start at https://liheapch.acf.hhs.gov/search-tool/ https://liheapch.acf.hhs.gov/search-tool/ * https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/heatstress/acclima.html https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/heatstress/acclima.html - NIOSH has some useful recommendations about how to acclimatize to heat safely. ("acclimatize" being the individual body ramping up its ability to deal with heat – interestingly, when people in this field use the word "adapt", increasing AC penetration is one of the things that goes into that)