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I'd encourage you to study the difference between (a) the Chinese political system and (b) the Chinese model for international co-operation. The first is hard

I'd encourage you to study the difference between (a) the Chinese political system and (b) the Chinese model for international co-operation. The first is hard for me to accept, as a Westerner attached to direct democracy, but I recognize its accomplishments and try to look through the fog of propaganda. The second is a an alternative to the Western, 'rules-based', neo-liberal and neo-colonial order. You're likely to see a large part of the world supportive of this alternative. It also leaves plenty of space for human rights and democracy in partner countries, since national sovereignty and multipolarity are amongst its guiding principals.

dontlaugh 4y ago
It's possible the first may not be so objectionable to you, but the image you have of it is (as you say) through the fog of Western propaganda. Here's what the PRC says about its democratic processes http://www.news.cn/english/2021-12/04/c_1310351231.htm http://www.news.cn/english/2021-12/04/c_1310351231.htm Having spoken to a bunch of Chinese people, they confirm many of these aspects. If anything it's a more direct form of democracy, where you elect local representatives that you have the opportunity to know personally, which then can get delegated to higher (up to national) bodies.
- VK538FY 4y ago
  I will read the white paper to which you link because it looks interesting and it's important to obtain information from the source. (Can't digest it before I respond to you here.) I have read about the positive aspects of the Chinese system of representation and the iterative improvements that it's intended to introduce. Definitely some things to learn from that approach. Still, I can't go so far as to call it direct democracy and it's not just semantics or my reference to the Swiss system. Here is my reasoning. The Chinese government (central, provincial or local) is known for some heavy handed tactics that just wouldn't pass in a direct democracy where the people is sovereign. Example: China's anti-coronavirus measures. (I am not arguing for or against but the case illustrates the mechanism.) I see no evidence that a large majority of Chinese citizens support those measures. In Switzerland, it was clear that the majority supporting measures was razor thin and this led to significant compromises. Primarily because there would have been more and more democratic initiatives seeking to limit government action and some would be successful. Neighbouring countries with less direct democracy do not feel this pressure and do not move so quickly.
  - dontlaugh 4y ago
    FWIW, the Chinese people I know overall supported the anti-covid measures and now support the zero covid policy. Not universally and most have some complaints about local implementation details, but ultimately that's what the dialectic between national and local democracy ends up with.

dontlaugh 4y ago

It's possible the first may not be so objectionable to you, but the image you have of it is (as you say) through the fog of Western propaganda. Here's what the PRC says about its democratic processes http://www.news.cn/english/2021-12/04/c_1310351231.htm http://www.news.cn/english/2021-12/04/c_1310351231.htm Having spoken to a bunch of Chinese people, they confirm many of these aspects. If anything it's a more direct form of democracy, where you elect local representatives that you have the opportunity to know personally, which then can get delegated to higher (up to national) bodies.

VK538FY 4y ago
I will read the white paper to which you link because it looks interesting and it's important to obtain information from the source. (Can't digest it before I respond to you here.) I have read about the positive aspects of the Chinese system of representation and the iterative improvements that it's intended to introduce. Definitely some things to learn from that approach. Still, I can't go so far as to call it direct democracy and it's not just semantics or my reference to the Swiss system. Here is my reasoning. The Chinese government (central, provincial or local) is known for some heavy handed tactics that just wouldn't pass in a direct democracy where the people is sovereign. Example: China's anti-coronavirus measures. (I am not arguing for or against but the case illustrates the mechanism.) I see no evidence that a large majority of Chinese citizens support those measures. In Switzerland, it was clear that the majority supporting measures was razor thin and this led to significant compromises. Primarily because there would have been more and more democratic initiatives seeking to limit government action and some would be successful. Neighbouring countries with less direct democracy do not feel this pressure and do not move so quickly.
- dontlaugh 4y ago
  FWIW, the Chinese people I know overall supported the anti-covid measures and now support the zero covid policy. Not universally and most have some complaints about local implementation details, but ultimately that's what the dialectic between national and local democracy ends up with.