4 ms·

So, you have at least one example of this scenario (gay Cloudflare employee gets doxxed and harassed) ready to tell us about, right?

chc 4y ago
I can provide lots of examples of Kiwi Farms doxxing and harassing queer people. Whether they happen to work for Cloudflare at the time is a matter of chance, and not particularly relevant to the point.
- Bigpet 4y ago
  Swatting people is illegal, if you have evidence of a crime you should bring it to the police, not to cloudflare.
  - sascha_sl 4y ago
    Oh, what willful ignorance. KF is the kind of "technically legal" operation that the charge of racketeering was invented for. Everyone knows what's happening and why things are laid out as they are, but nobody immediately responsible for the illegal act can be found.
    - Bigpet 4y ago
      Then charge them with racketeering. If that doesn't work make the part you don't like illegal. Enshrine something like the "right to be forgotten" stuff into law and make them take down threads if the people they refer to don't want them up. I know it's hard to word something like a "right to be forgotten" without making it to broad and a tool for abuse of chilling speech but it seems worth the effort if the consequences are this dire.
      - sascha_sl 4y ago
        I already live in an EU country - as do many of the people with threads on KF. I don't even have the minuscule amount of control voters in the US would have over this, and Cloudflare only cares about US legislation (as with the anti sex work legislation in the article). If you would stop derailing the conversation with unfeasible solutions.
      - dmatech 4y ago
        A "right to be forgotten" is probably fundamentally incompatible with the First Amendment in the USA. While people have the right to their own identity, they do not have the right to absolute control over their reputations. The best they can do is sue when they are defamed.
        sascha_sl 4y ago
        Making defamation lawsuits less inaccessible to a significantly poorer party would be a start.
        MichaelCollins 4y ago
        In America defamation lawsuits are hard because of the First Amendment, not just because lawsuits are expensive. Even if you make defamation lawsuits cheap and accessible, it will still be an uphill battle if you're trying to sue somebody telling unsavory truths about you.
      - anigbrowl 4y ago
        One problem is that one can't bring a prosecution oneself; not only does the state maintain a general monopoly on the use of violence, but it typically maintains a monopoly on prosecution. If police or prosecutors dislike you (perhaps because you are a member of some socially disfavored out group) what recourse do you have?
sascha_sl 4y ago
I haven't checked, but I expect the chilling effect is getting most of them to not rock the boat too hard. If you want an example for such targeting though, Liz Fong-Jones has a thread on Kiwifarms because she's outspoken and worked at Google (and thus being seen as more influential / more of a threat). The thread has also significantly slowed down after she left Google.
- ta1235414335 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - delroth 4y ago
    > made public for obvious reasons Read: to put a target on the back of anyone making an abuse report about the website.
  - sophacles 4y ago
splitrocket 4y ago
We will soon enough, now that cloudflare has published this.

chc 4y ago

I can provide lots of examples of Kiwi Farms doxxing and harassing queer people. Whether they happen to work for Cloudflare at the time is a matter of chance, and not particularly relevant to the point.

Bigpet 4y ago
Swatting people is illegal, if you have evidence of a crime you should bring it to the police, not to cloudflare.
- sascha_sl 4y ago
  Oh, what willful ignorance. KF is the kind of "technically legal" operation that the charge of racketeering was invented for. Everyone knows what's happening and why things are laid out as they are, but nobody immediately responsible for the illegal act can be found.
  - Bigpet 4y ago
    Then charge them with racketeering. If that doesn't work make the part you don't like illegal. Enshrine something like the "right to be forgotten" stuff into law and make them take down threads if the people they refer to don't want them up. I know it's hard to word something like a "right to be forgotten" without making it to broad and a tool for abuse of chilling speech but it seems worth the effort if the consequences are this dire.
    - sascha_sl 4y ago
      I already live in an EU country - as do many of the people with threads on KF. I don't even have the minuscule amount of control voters in the US would have over this, and Cloudflare only cares about US legislation (as with the anti sex work legislation in the article). If you would stop derailing the conversation with unfeasible solutions.
    - dmatech 4y ago
      A "right to be forgotten" is probably fundamentally incompatible with the First Amendment in the USA. While people have the right to their own identity, they do not have the right to absolute control over their reputations. The best they can do is sue when they are defamed.
      - sascha_sl 4y ago
        Making defamation lawsuits less inaccessible to a significantly poorer party would be a start.
        MichaelCollins 4y ago
        In America defamation lawsuits are hard because of the First Amendment, not just because lawsuits are expensive. Even if you make defamation lawsuits cheap and accessible, it will still be an uphill battle if you're trying to sue somebody telling unsavory truths about you.
    - anigbrowl 4y ago
      One problem is that one can't bring a prosecution oneself; not only does the state maintain a general monopoly on the use of violence, but it typically maintains a monopoly on prosecution. If police or prosecutors dislike you (perhaps because you are a member of some socially disfavored out group) what recourse do you have?

sascha_sl 4y ago

I haven't checked, but I expect the chilling effect is getting most of them to not rock the boat too hard. If you want an example for such targeting though, Liz Fong-Jones has a thread on Kiwifarms because she's outspoken and worked at Google (and thus being seen as more influential / more of a threat). The thread has also significantly slowed down after she left Google.

ta1235414335 4y ago
[flagged]
- delroth 4y ago
  > made public for obvious reasons Read: to put a target on the back of anyone making an abuse report about the website.
- sophacles 4y ago

splitrocket 4y ago

We will soon enough, now that cloudflare has published this.