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Two things can be true: - the NSA and/or other three letter agencies are/were out of control - Snowden did enormous damage to US and allies with his indiscrim

Two things can be true: - the NSA and/or other three letter agencies are/were out of control - Snowden did enormous damage to US and allies with his indiscriminate distribution of classified information https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/snowden-is-a-traitor-and-a-fraud-period-2/ https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/snowden-is-a-traitor-and...

sealeck 4y ago
> Snowden did enormous damage to US and allies with his indiscriminate distribution of classified information Sure, in the same way that the police do to organised white-collar criminals when they arrest them and put them in prison.
- andrewmutz 4y ago
  I am not the parent poster, but Snowden revealed far more information than was necessary to blow the whistle on domestic spying at the NSA. Just take a look at the list of revelations https://www.lawfareblog.com/snowden-revelations https://www.lawfareblog.com/snowden-revelations Most of the revelations are not at all about domestic spying and instead revealed details about doing what the NSA is chartered to do: international spying. You can consider it immoral that the NSA monitored the communications of Angela Merkel or the italian ministry of defense, but that isn't whistle-blowing. It's the reason that the NSA exists.
  - sealeck 4y ago
    > You can consider it immoral that the NSA monitored the communications of Angela Merkel or the italian ministry of defense, but that isn't whistle-blowing. It's the reason that the NSA exists. It is definitely whisteblowing to reveal that a country has been secretely wiretapping the communications of its (supposed) allies – one can blow the whistle on things which are "legal" especially when their legality has been surreptitiously pushed through the back door.
BiteCode_dev 4y ago
And Lincoln did a lot of damages to the slave-based economy when he championed abolition. I almost went full Godwin point on this.
jorge-d 4y ago
I opened your link and saw that bio about the author: "Fred Fleitz served in 2018 as a Deputy Assistant to President Donald Trump and Chief of Staff to National Security Adviser John Bolton." That surely seems like a very objective person.
LudwigNagasena 4y ago
No government is my ally.
- cpursley 4y ago
  Glad some people get it. Governments are just big institutions. And monopolies at that. Ones with the power to kill and imprison.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
735409264082 4y ago
The US and its allies did that damage to themselves by doing the things detailed in Snowden's leaks. Snowden is not a traitor because he swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution, and he did just that by leaking. If anyone is a traitor, it's the people who gave and followed unconstitutional orders.
LatteLazy 4y ago
He was extremely careful in the docs he permitted to be released. Anyone telling you otherwise is lying to you.
- cestith 4y ago
  He also should have had some help from the news agency in them asking him for his opinion and using some of their own judgment about which parts of it to publishin case he accidentally shared anything in such a large group of documents. That probably also happened. I think it's telling that multiple administrations have failed to come forward and promise him a fair trial, let alone any sort of deal, commutation, or pardon.
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    Everybody is guaranteed a fair trial. Why should anybody pardon somebody who hasn't been sentenced?
    - cestith 4y ago
klabb3 4y ago
> - Snowden did enormous damage to US and allies with his indiscriminate distribution of classified information That would be something like "telling the police about your abusive husband hurts your family". Yes, it did hurt intelligence agencies and their beneficiaries. That is not the same as "the US". The victims of the indiscriminate surveillance were largely American and are much more plentiful than the perpetrators.
lioeters 4y ago
All I'm hearing is, "Reporting the crime did enormous damage to the criminals." It’s the world’s smallest violin, and it’s playing just for you.

sealeck 4y ago

> Snowden did enormous damage to US and allies with his indiscriminate distribution of classified information Sure, in the same way that the police do to organised white-collar criminals when they arrest them and put them in prison.

andrewmutz 4y ago
I am not the parent poster, but Snowden revealed far more information than was necessary to blow the whistle on domestic spying at the NSA. Just take a look at the list of revelations https://www.lawfareblog.com/snowden-revelations https://www.lawfareblog.com/snowden-revelations Most of the revelations are not at all about domestic spying and instead revealed details about doing what the NSA is chartered to do: international spying. You can consider it immoral that the NSA monitored the communications of Angela Merkel or the italian ministry of defense, but that isn't whistle-blowing. It's the reason that the NSA exists.
- sealeck 4y ago
  > You can consider it immoral that the NSA monitored the communications of Angela Merkel or the italian ministry of defense, but that isn't whistle-blowing. It's the reason that the NSA exists. It is definitely whisteblowing to reveal that a country has been secretely wiretapping the communications of its (supposed) allies – one can blow the whistle on things which are "legal" especially when their legality has been surreptitiously pushed through the back door.

BiteCode_dev 4y ago

And Lincoln did a lot of damages to the slave-based economy when he championed abolition. I almost went full Godwin point on this.

jorge-d 4y ago

I opened your link and saw that bio about the author: "Fred Fleitz served in 2018 as a Deputy Assistant to President Donald Trump and Chief of Staff to National Security Adviser John Bolton." That surely seems like a very objective person.

LudwigNagasena 4y ago

No government is my ally.

cpursley 4y ago
Glad some people get it. Governments are just big institutions. And monopolies at that. Ones with the power to kill and imprison.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

735409264082 4y ago

The US and its allies did that damage to themselves by doing the things detailed in Snowden's leaks. Snowden is not a traitor because he swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution, and he did just that by leaking. If anyone is a traitor, it's the people who gave and followed unconstitutional orders.

LatteLazy 4y ago

He was extremely careful in the docs he permitted to be released. Anyone telling you otherwise is lying to you.

cestith 4y ago
He also should have had some help from the news agency in them asking him for his opinion and using some of their own judgment about which parts of it to publishin case he accidentally shared anything in such a large group of documents. That probably also happened. I think it's telling that multiple administrations have failed to come forward and promise him a fair trial, let alone any sort of deal, commutation, or pardon.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  Everybody is guaranteed a fair trial. Why should anybody pardon somebody who hasn't been sentenced?
  - cestith 4y ago

klabb3 4y ago

> - Snowden did enormous damage to US and allies with his indiscriminate distribution of classified information That would be something like "telling the police about your abusive husband hurts your family". Yes, it did hurt intelligence agencies and their beneficiaries. That is not the same as "the US". The victims of the indiscriminate surveillance were largely American and are much more plentiful than the perpetrators.

lioeters 4y ago

All I'm hearing is, "Reporting the crime did enormous damage to the criminals." It’s the world’s smallest violin, and it’s playing just for you.