4 ms·

Just spend a couple of weeks without it, you’ll be fine and come out the other side much more tolerant of heat. This is the case of most “I can’t imagine” situ

Just spend a couple of weeks without it, you’ll be fine and come out the other side much more tolerant of heat. This is the case of most “I can’t imagine” situations, just do it for a bit and your fear will prove mostly unfounded.

kixiQu 4y ago
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6924a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6924a1.htm
- acabal 4y ago
  That link says that there's an average of 702 heat related deaths per year. In 2020 there were 38,824 car accident deaths.[1] Yet everyone keeps driving, without question. Is it so much to ask to see if it's possible to tolerate living without AC for a while, just like humans did for several thousand years? Or is a tiny fraction of the number of auto-related deaths enough to make us throw up our hands and say "it's impossible, AC and climate change for everyone!" [1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/2020-traffic-crash-data-fatalities https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/2020-traffic-crash-data...
  - kixiQu 4y ago
    > see if it's possible to tolerate living without AC for a while, just like humans did for several thousand years? Ah, do you have evidence that >65s weren't dying because of heat stress for those thousands of years? That'd be cheering. Deciding the excess heat often now caused by climate change should be allowed to kill large numbers of the elderly when AC can prevent it is quite a take. I certainly hope everyone holding such a belief does so because they have already eliminated all sources of emissions in their life that are not literally life and death.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    Just add a datapoint in Japan 2021: 1,528 vs 2,636
- colechristensen 4y ago
  There is quite a lot of distance between discomfort without AC and dying of the heat. If you're not doing heavy labor all day somewhere hot, living in death valley, or aged or otherwise health compromised there is a whole lot of room between "I'm hot" and "I'm dying". Heat dissipation is one of the major advantages of being human.
  - kixiQu 4y ago
    Where I live, elderly people who are used to not having AC (esp. from the time when intense heat was rarer here) often do not appreciate the importance of keeping their own climate controlled. It isn't actually always easy to tell when you're causing already-impaired organs a lot of stress. A lot of the heat-induced deaths occur as "sudden" heart attacks or strokes. I think you and I agree that for e.g. a young healthy person it's bad and wasteful to keep the same temperature control. However, the comment to which I responded doesn't have the disclaimers you've added; it contributes to a "people should be able to tough it out" narrative that we shouldn't perpetuate when in reality, people are dying unnecessarily.
    - colechristensen 4y ago
      Yes, if you are elderly or have otherwise compromised health, heat will kill you, because that's just a thing. As your body degrades you get less good at regulating your temperature and need support. That's just a different topic from "I can't live without air conditioning", which, healthy people can. And specifically, pushing yourself to be in a particularly hot environment for a couple of weeks can significantly expand your heat tolerance.
      - kixiQu 4y ago
        So then this becomes a question of: is it responsible to talk about this with the general "you" as though unhealthy young people or healthy elderly people don't exist, as the parent comment did? To create a perception of AC being generally decadent that discourages it for all, including those who may not know they need it? I'd say it's not a small caveat to elide. Something like one out of ten people around the world is over 65. In the US, something like one out of four. That's a huge chunk of humanity, not a corner case to handwave.
dont__panic 4y ago
I tried going without air conditioning this summer, after moving to a new state and town in the spring. I'm relatively far north in the USA, but even where I am, I found the 85F+ heat waves unbearable for WFH and sleep. I grew up without AC and grew to hate summers as a result. This summer I discovered that I just do not function intellectually above 80F indoors. It's a bit different if you're outside with a breeze, enjoying nature, hiking, walking, biking, etc. I seem perfectly capable of reading a book or having a stimulating chat in those situations. But even with a fan going, there's a pretty low temperature ceiling for me where I can't work productively. And if it doesn't get below 70F at night, I can't sleep well, which has even more impact on my happiness and productivity. So I can survive without AC. But I broke and got an AC unit a couple of weeks ago. This heat wave for the past week or so in the northeast convinced me that I was right to do so. I'm just not happy without it.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Yeah, absolutely. It's not "nobody needs AC", but the "oh my god I can't live without AC" is mostly fear. If you push yourself into situations where you're uncomfortably hot/code for a while, you'll find your dependance lessened. That's all. I'm quite happy with my well-air-conditioned apartment, I have no problem with using it, and it's helpful. But I'm also fine with being outside the perfect temperature bubble sometimes.
bombcar 4y ago
Part of it also has to do with us getting fatter on average; it helps in the winter but not so much in the summer. A trick that can help with that is have "cold rooms" and let the other rooms raise in temperature. I'm very comfortable above 80° if I haven't been moving around a bunch, but after I come in from outside work I like a cool room for awhile.
pivo 4y ago
I spent six weeks last summer working in my place without AC because the AC had broken and for various reasons it couldn't be fixed right away. I can say for certain that I did not become more tolerant of heat and my productivity was extremely low because I was lethargic all the time. I may have become slightly less uncomfortable in the heat but that didn't help with the lethargy.

kixiQu 4y ago

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6924a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6924a1.htm

acabal 4y ago
That link says that there's an average of 702 heat related deaths per year. In 2020 there were 38,824 car accident deaths.[1] Yet everyone keeps driving, without question. Is it so much to ask to see if it's possible to tolerate living without AC for a while, just like humans did for several thousand years? Or is a tiny fraction of the number of auto-related deaths enough to make us throw up our hands and say "it's impossible, AC and climate change for everyone!" [1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/2020-traffic-crash-data-fatalities https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/2020-traffic-crash-data...
- kixiQu 4y ago
  > see if it's possible to tolerate living without AC for a while, just like humans did for several thousand years? Ah, do you have evidence that >65s weren't dying because of heat stress for those thousands of years? That'd be cheering. Deciding the excess heat often now caused by climate change should be allowed to kill large numbers of the elderly when AC can prevent it is quite a take. I certainly hope everyone holding such a belief does so because they have already eliminated all sources of emissions in their life that are not literally life and death.
- fomine3 4y ago
  Just add a datapoint in Japan 2021: 1,528 vs 2,636
colechristensen 4y ago
There is quite a lot of distance between discomfort without AC and dying of the heat. If you're not doing heavy labor all day somewhere hot, living in death valley, or aged or otherwise health compromised there is a whole lot of room between "I'm hot" and "I'm dying". Heat dissipation is one of the major advantages of being human.
- kixiQu 4y ago
  Where I live, elderly people who are used to not having AC (esp. from the time when intense heat was rarer here) often do not appreciate the importance of keeping their own climate controlled. It isn't actually always easy to tell when you're causing already-impaired organs a lot of stress. A lot of the heat-induced deaths occur as "sudden" heart attacks or strokes. I think you and I agree that for e.g. a young healthy person it's bad and wasteful to keep the same temperature control. However, the comment to which I responded doesn't have the disclaimers you've added; it contributes to a "people should be able to tough it out" narrative that we shouldn't perpetuate when in reality, people are dying unnecessarily.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    Yes, if you are elderly or have otherwise compromised health, heat will kill you, because that's just a thing. As your body degrades you get less good at regulating your temperature and need support. That's just a different topic from "I can't live without air conditioning", which, healthy people can. And specifically, pushing yourself to be in a particularly hot environment for a couple of weeks can significantly expand your heat tolerance.
    - kixiQu 4y ago
      So then this becomes a question of: is it responsible to talk about this with the general "you" as though unhealthy young people or healthy elderly people don't exist, as the parent comment did? To create a perception of AC being generally decadent that discourages it for all, including those who may not know they need it? I'd say it's not a small caveat to elide. Something like one out of ten people around the world is over 65. In the US, something like one out of four. That's a huge chunk of humanity, not a corner case to handwave.

dont__panic 4y ago

I tried going without air conditioning this summer, after moving to a new state and town in the spring. I'm relatively far north in the USA, but even where I am, I found the 85F+ heat waves unbearable for WFH and sleep. I grew up without AC and grew to hate summers as a result. This summer I discovered that I just do not function intellectually above 80F indoors. It's a bit different if you're outside with a breeze, enjoying nature, hiking, walking, biking, etc. I seem perfectly capable of reading a book or having a stimulating chat in those situations. But even with a fan going, there's a pretty low temperature ceiling for me where I can't work productively. And if it doesn't get below 70F at night, I can't sleep well, which has even more impact on my happiness and productivity. So I can survive without AC. But I broke and got an AC unit a couple of weeks ago. This heat wave for the past week or so in the northeast convinced me that I was right to do so. I'm just not happy without it.

colechristensen 4y ago
Yeah, absolutely. It's not "nobody needs AC", but the "oh my god I can't live without AC" is mostly fear. If you push yourself into situations where you're uncomfortably hot/code for a while, you'll find your dependance lessened. That's all. I'm quite happy with my well-air-conditioned apartment, I have no problem with using it, and it's helpful. But I'm also fine with being outside the perfect temperature bubble sometimes.

bombcar 4y ago

Part of it also has to do with us getting fatter on average; it helps in the winter but not so much in the summer. A trick that can help with that is have "cold rooms" and let the other rooms raise in temperature. I'm very comfortable above 80° if I haven't been moving around a bunch, but after I come in from outside work I like a cool room for awhile.

pivo 4y ago

I spent six weeks last summer working in my place without AC because the AC had broken and for various reasons it couldn't be fixed right away. I can say for certain that I did not become more tolerant of heat and my productivity was extremely low because I was lethargic all the time. I may have become slightly less uncomfortable in the heat but that didn't help with the lethargy.