5 ms·

Meh, it's not gonna be the end of the world. Prices for consumers will increase (maybe around 3x), but if the poorest are helped accordingly it's not so bad and

Meh, it's not gonna be the end of the world. Prices for consumers will increase (maybe around 3x), but if the poorest are helped accordingly it's not so bad and will actual push people to be more responsible. This whole crisis actually mostly show how absurd our energy grid is, and the poor strategic choices made in the previous decades. It also pushes for much needed reforms and investments (300 billions in renewables announced a few days ago).

kaon123 4y ago
YES! Jesus christ it shows how shortsighted parlementary democracies are. And many individuals: Becoming semi-powerindependent has been possible and cheaper for a long time with Solar Panels. It doesn't heat your house though. But really, who needs to heat so much anyway? Just heat one room, wear a jumper, and visit your friends or the pub instead. But no, instead of calling for behavioral change, what do the politicians say now? Subsidize! Thank god I live in Switzerland. The most democratic country in the world, and Europe's least dependent on Russian Gas.
- fsloth 4y ago
  ”who needs to heat so much anyway?” When outside temperature is -30 C pretty much anyone who does not want to freeze to death…
- soco 4y ago
  Almost half of the Swiss gas imports are from Russia, and let's add to that a part of the EU imports - which probably more than half originate from Russia as well. But making extraordinary claims was always at the heart of Swissness, right? https://gazenergie.ch/de/wissen/detail/knowledge-topic/3-herkunft/ https://gazenergie.ch/de/wissen/detail/knowledge-topic/3-her...
  - origin_path 4y ago
    I think kaon123 was being sarcastic.
- peteradio 4y ago
  Generally if you don't heat your whole house, your pipes will freeze.
benj111 4y ago
Define 'poorest' because gas and electricity bills are predicted to reach an average of £5000. That isn't affordable for even some in the middle class.
Starlevel001 4y ago
> but if the poorest are helped accordingly Good joke!
- Layvier 4y ago
  I get where this comes from, but at least in France and Germany it's not questioned that there will be assistance and even direct intervention from the gouvernement on the electricity market. We're talking about democracies with strong socialist components after all. And also, Macron will definitely do everything to avoid another Yellow Jackets episode...
schroeding 4y ago
> but if the poorest are helped accordingly it's not so bad Prices for consumers increasing thricefold will send a major part of the population deep into debt (e.g. >20% of the German population have no financial reserves at all, living paycheck to paycheck) and drop a major part of the middle class down to the living standard of the (pre-2020) lower class. I mean, sure, you're right, it's not the end of the world, we will recover from this and hopefully emerge with renewables everywhere, but even if we manage this crisis optimally, the next few years will be quite rocky both politically and economically here in Europe. And I'm quite scared what happens if we should fuck up, because... > and will actual push people to be more responsible ... this whole mess can also, alternatively, push people to extreme, simple "solutions" offered by more extremist parts of the political spectrum instead. :/
TMWNN 4y ago
>Meh, it's not gonna be the end of the world. Prices for consumers will increase (maybe around 3x), No, more like 10X. >but if the poorest are helped accordingly it's not so bad and will actual push people to be more responsible. This is not a case of "government can cap the bills" or "government can provide subsidies to help pay for higher bills" or, even, "government can ration electricity". Setting aside the inflationary and other side effects of doing so, *SUBSIDIES AND RATIONING DON'T MATTER IF THERE IS NO SUPPLY*.

kaon123 4y ago

YES! Jesus christ it shows how shortsighted parlementary democracies are. And many individuals: Becoming semi-powerindependent has been possible and cheaper for a long time with Solar Panels. It doesn't heat your house though. But really, who needs to heat so much anyway? Just heat one room, wear a jumper, and visit your friends or the pub instead. But no, instead of calling for behavioral change, what do the politicians say now? Subsidize! Thank god I live in Switzerland. The most democratic country in the world, and Europe's least dependent on Russian Gas.

fsloth 4y ago
”who needs to heat so much anyway?” When outside temperature is -30 C pretty much anyone who does not want to freeze to death…
soco 4y ago
Almost half of the Swiss gas imports are from Russia, and let's add to that a part of the EU imports - which probably more than half originate from Russia as well. But making extraordinary claims was always at the heart of Swissness, right? https://gazenergie.ch/de/wissen/detail/knowledge-topic/3-herkunft/ https://gazenergie.ch/de/wissen/detail/knowledge-topic/3-her...
- origin_path 4y ago
  I think kaon123 was being sarcastic.
peteradio 4y ago
Generally if you don't heat your whole house, your pipes will freeze.

benj111 4y ago

Define 'poorest' because gas and electricity bills are predicted to reach an average of £5000. That isn't affordable for even some in the middle class.

Starlevel001 4y ago

> but if the poorest are helped accordingly Good joke!

Layvier 4y ago
I get where this comes from, but at least in France and Germany it's not questioned that there will be assistance and even direct intervention from the gouvernement on the electricity market. We're talking about democracies with strong socialist components after all. And also, Macron will definitely do everything to avoid another Yellow Jackets episode...

schroeding 4y ago

> but if the poorest are helped accordingly it's not so bad Prices for consumers increasing thricefold will send a major part of the population deep into debt (e.g. >20% of the German population have no financial reserves at all, living paycheck to paycheck) and drop a major part of the middle class down to the living standard of the (pre-2020) lower class. I mean, sure, you're right, it's not the end of the world, we will recover from this and hopefully emerge with renewables everywhere, but even if we manage this crisis optimally, the next few years will be quite rocky both politically and economically here in Europe. And I'm quite scared what happens if we should fuck up, because... > and will actual push people to be more responsible ... this whole mess can also, alternatively, push people to extreme, simple "solutions" offered by more extremist parts of the political spectrum instead. :/

TMWNN 4y ago

>Meh, it's not gonna be the end of the world. Prices for consumers will increase (maybe around 3x), No, more like 10X. >but if the poorest are helped accordingly it's not so bad and will actual push people to be more responsible. This is not a case of "government can cap the bills" or "government can provide subsidies to help pay for higher bills" or, even, "government can ration electricity". Setting aside the inflationary and other side effects of doing so, *SUBSIDIES AND RATIONING DON'T MATTER IF THERE IS NO SUPPLY*.