9 ms·

Europeans, what are you doing for preparation? In my street, I see some people buying wood, while others claim nothing will happen and no preparation is needed

Europeans, what are you doing for preparation? In my street, I see some people buying wood, while others claim nothing will happen and no preparation is needed.

tomjen3 4y ago
I have nothing i can do as i live in an apartment that is rented. On the other hand I will also be using a lot less energy to heat.
panick21_ 4y ago
In Switzerland we should be mostly fine with nuclear and hydro. I don't drive a car and I can afford some amount of raises in price. So I not really doing anything. Switzerland made the brain dead choice to stop all nuclear research and eventually remove all nuclear plants. I just hope to god that we can reverse that absurdly tragic choice and start planning for a next generation reactor. I would love if Switzerland could plan for a GenIV reactor to replace its aging fleet. We really don't have any other decent option. Importing coal power from Germany seems to be an alternative. Maybe the single worst popular vote in my lifetime. Except maybe some of the immigration votes.
- kaon123 4y ago
  Actually Switzerland released a Study today that they can cover the entire electricity demand in the country by building 3000 additional windmills. So maybe the nuclear power plants aren't needed after all. But of course, what will actually happen is that the power plants will be closed while the windmills are on the bureaucratic drawing table.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    Yeah sure, but I much rather have 1 nuclear plant then 3000 additional windmills. Nuclear is more reliable, cleaner, less deadly and much better to look at.
    - filoleg 4y ago
      When you say "less deadly" in regards to nuclear compared to windmills, you mean "less deadly for birds", right? Not that it diminishes your point, being less deadly for birds is a legitimate factor. I am just curious if you omitted the "for birds" part or if windmills are deadly for humans in some way as well.
      - panick21_ 4y ago
        No I mean humans. I mean neither is very deadly but I believe far more people would die constructing and reconstructing 3000 giant towers rather then having a single GenIV nuclear plant running for the next 60 years. There are other reasons as well.
        filoleg 4y ago
        Ah, it is constructions related. I didn't even think about that at all, I assumed construction was pretty much casualty-free at this point. Good point, thanks for bringing it up. I was legitimately confused how windmills manage to result in operational deaths, with the construction never even entering my mind.
      - deepspace 4y ago
        The number of deaths per terrawatt-hour is 0.04 for Wind vs 0.03 for Nuclear (compared to 25 for coal and 2.4 for natural gas). The figure for nuclear includes deaths resulting from the Chernobyl and Fukushima disasters, which distorts the numbers. The death rate for nuclear during normal operation (which is how wind, coal, and gas are measured) is vanishingly small.
        panick21_ 4y ago
        Not sure how to count but most of the death in Fukushima were because of unnecessary actions by the government that resulted in far more problems then the radiation itself. Chernobyl I think shouldn't even be counted, its such a different technology stack. Neither is very deadly. I would just really like to see a nice modern nuclear plant.
trh0awayman 4y ago
Got some plane tickets out of Europe for late September. Plan to come back in March next year. It will be cheaper for us to go on vacation for a few months than it will be to stay. Many of my friends have already departed.
- mym1990 4y ago
  Ironically enough my mom is moving to France in a week, for a year! I am hoping for the best...
  - kergonath 4y ago
    France is really not the worst in Europe at the moment. It’s probably one of the large countries that can the best withstand the next couple of years, if they can get their heads out of their arses.
- _hnrb 4y ago
  I'm curious, what country are you in?
  - trh0awayman 4y ago
    Germany
yourusername 4y ago
I'll just be cold. Warm socks and sweaters. Warm water is a luxury and i can do without.
TacticalCoder 4y ago
> Europeans, what are you doing for preparation? By chance I moved to a country with mild winter, close to the seaside (which helps regulate the weather, both in summer and in winter). I just had my open fireplace (which wastes 80% of the burned wood's energy and which requires me to constantly refill) replaced with an efficient closed one (which moreover looks gorgeous). 5 K EUR investment which I'll regain on energy bills in no time. Buying wood is great, especially so if you happen to have an efficient way of burning it (which an open fireplace certainly isn't). I'm, so far, one of those who still can deal with crazy energy price raises but I wouldn't want to suffer actual gaz or electricity shortages preventing me from warming the house during the few cold months. A fireplace and reserves of wood, medieval style, should help.
- Thlom 4y ago
  I'm in one of few electricity markets in Europe with below average prices at the moment (we don't use gas for heating here), but just in case shit hits the fan here as well I've bought two pallets of firewood. If that's not enough I've got access to more at my family's cabin. Bought a limestone fireplace for 6K euros or so a few years ago, if we get the same crazy prices the rest of you got it might have paid for itself in a couple of years. :)
scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
Making more money? It’s not like we won’t have heat at all. Bills and prices will just become super high. The fact that everyone knows this will blunt impact. I’m seeing lots of city lights out or turned down. Smart energy use will probably become a bigger topic. I live in a big Polish city though, so someone will just take care of it and charge me. For people who own houses and live outside cities I have heard of friends’ parents stockpiling coal, fuel, wood etc. And that it can be difficult to buy those at reasonable prices. However I think it is important to remember at moments like this that we live in the 1st world and in 2022. We have gotten used to cheap luxuries. Headlines would like us to have great fear in losing even a little tiny bit. But I don’t think this is the case. Normal people aren’t afraid at all, they’re just pissed that everything is expensive. Everyone understands that there is a war going on, and that there are very important values which we represent as the EU. In this attack the enemy intends to cripple those beliefs by creating discomfort for us. They want to prove to themselves that we are these decadent materialists that go into a mass hysteria at first sign of trouble. But we got hit by a huge wave of refugees, and instead of lashing out at them, we’ve made them feel welcome. I suspect something similar will be the case here - people will just do what they can to conserve energy.
- picsao 4y ago
  The wave was small compared to what's yet to come. And we can already perceive a rise in authoritarian governments and decline of left institutions. Putin is accelerating a declining process well underway and though we still will be here afterwards, we might not recognize ourselves in the mirror. War is to force your enemy to change his behavior by force. Putin might actually on the verge of victory here.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >Making more money? Yeah, tell that to people in Eastern Europe where pensioners will have to decide between paying for heating and paying for medicine. Maybe boomers in Western EU countries like Netherlands or Germany will be fine with their 3 houses they rent out to supplement their "measly" 2k Euro pensions, but in eastern Europe boomers don't have it too good with their 200 Euro pensions living in uninsulated shacks or commie blocks.
secretsatan 4y ago
I just ordered myself a paraffin camping lamp, I already had stacks of candles but they were more for mood. And of course I have a torch, but I always worry about batteries, so another backup isn't so bad. I'm not anticipating major blackouts or anything, just made me think back to my childhood when blackouts did occasionally happen, and we had one of those lamps and it was more versatile than candles. They are talking about possible blackouts here, but it's early days.
hef19898 4y ago
Nothing, because German gas recervoirs are being filled up right noe. Switching from gas heating to a heat pump is not feasible time and budget wise. The first gas consumers to be cut off will be public pools and offices. Prices will go up, but not to a level tgat will hurt us, those that will be hurt will get public subsidies.
davedx 4y ago
Signed a 3y contract with my energy supplier and turned the thermostat down a bit. Likely we will just absorb the extra cost. Our household expenditures also went up significantly due to food inflation too I think (Netherlands)
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  Contracts doesn't matter. Our energy supplier rose prices (600%) a month before end of contract. It was something like "accept or leave without penalty". So I left.
rejectfinite 4y ago
Nothing. I'm in an apartment lol. I don't use much electricity and I don't pay separate for heating.
glogla 4y ago
Nothing. Most of my country's power comes from nuclear and coal power plants, and most of heat is district heating using waste heat from the plants. We're going to be impacted by electricity prices but that's about it. The biggest way this affected me is I started to despise Germans. They cause this with their anti-nuclear bullshit. They emboldened Russia. At least half of Ukrainian blood spilled is on German hands.
- hef19898 4y ago
  The last paragraph is a lot of strong opinion with a whole lot less basis in reality and facts.
  - glogla 4y ago
    Lemme guess, you're German. EDIT: comment history talks of "pro-nuclear crowd" and shows arrogant and dismissive behavior. German for sure.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      Yes, but that's not the point. Germany never used electricity to heat, we always used gas. And we always got a significant amount of that gas from the USSR and then Russia. So the German ramp-down of nuclear power has nothing to do with the current energy, including heat and electricity, situation. And saying half of the Ukrainian blood is on Germany's hand is such a strong argument that some explanation, besides personal feelings, would be helpfull. Besides, I call those things out every time I see them, be that Gorbatchev and Afghanistan, the US and Iraq, France and Algeria...
      - glogla 4y ago
        Germany chose to use Russian gas for heating. You are the richest country in Europe, you could have been on heat pumps long ago. You instead decided to keep using gas, to give more money to Putin.
        4y ago
t0bia_s 4y ago
We started with wood last winter (I live in big city in middle of Europe). And we continue this year. Actually it's not that big deal with heat. Electricity is more problematic.
brnt 4y ago
Heatpumps had been trendy for a while now in NL, and if you can supply and install them, you are having a great time right now. I managed to snap up one of the last relatively favourable long term energy contracts that controls the damage a bit, and fortuitously I had solar panels installed a year ago. For a heatpump we'd need to replace all radiators as well, so it's something I'll have to get done before the contract is up.

Europeans, what are you doing for preparation? In my street, I see some people buying wood, while others claim nothing will happen and no preparation is needed.

tomjen3 4y ago

I have nothing i can do as i live in an apartment that is rented. On the other hand I will also be using a lot less energy to heat.

panick21_ 4y ago

In Switzerland we should be mostly fine with nuclear and hydro. I don't drive a car and I can afford some amount of raises in price. So I not really doing anything. Switzerland made the brain dead choice to stop all nuclear research and eventually remove all nuclear plants. I just hope to god that we can reverse that absurdly tragic choice and start planning for a next generation reactor. I would love if Switzerland could plan for a GenIV reactor to replace its aging fleet. We really don't have any other decent option. Importing coal power from Germany seems to be an alternative. Maybe the single worst popular vote in my lifetime. Except maybe some of the immigration votes.

kaon123 4y ago
Actually Switzerland released a Study today that they can cover the entire electricity demand in the country by building 3000 additional windmills. So maybe the nuclear power plants aren't needed after all. But of course, what will actually happen is that the power plants will be closed while the windmills are on the bureaucratic drawing table.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Yeah sure, but I much rather have 1 nuclear plant then 3000 additional windmills. Nuclear is more reliable, cleaner, less deadly and much better to look at.
  - filoleg 4y ago
    When you say "less deadly" in regards to nuclear compared to windmills, you mean "less deadly for birds", right? Not that it diminishes your point, being less deadly for birds is a legitimate factor. I am just curious if you omitted the "for birds" part or if windmills are deadly for humans in some way as well.
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      No I mean humans. I mean neither is very deadly but I believe far more people would die constructing and reconstructing 3000 giant towers rather then having a single GenIV nuclear plant running for the next 60 years. There are other reasons as well.
      - filoleg 4y ago
        Ah, it is constructions related. I didn't even think about that at all, I assumed construction was pretty much casualty-free at this point. Good point, thanks for bringing it up. I was legitimately confused how windmills manage to result in operational deaths, with the construction never even entering my mind.
    - deepspace 4y ago
      The number of deaths per terrawatt-hour is 0.04 for Wind vs 0.03 for Nuclear (compared to 25 for coal and 2.4 for natural gas). The figure for nuclear includes deaths resulting from the Chernobyl and Fukushima disasters, which distorts the numbers. The death rate for nuclear during normal operation (which is how wind, coal, and gas are measured) is vanishingly small.
      - panick21_ 4y ago
        Not sure how to count but most of the death in Fukushima were because of unnecessary actions by the government that resulted in far more problems then the radiation itself. Chernobyl I think shouldn't even be counted, its such a different technology stack. Neither is very deadly. I would just really like to see a nice modern nuclear plant.

trh0awayman 4y ago

Got some plane tickets out of Europe for late September. Plan to come back in March next year. It will be cheaper for us to go on vacation for a few months than it will be to stay. Many of my friends have already departed.

mym1990 4y ago
Ironically enough my mom is moving to France in a week, for a year! I am hoping for the best...
- kergonath 4y ago
  France is really not the worst in Europe at the moment. It’s probably one of the large countries that can the best withstand the next couple of years, if they can get their heads out of their arses.
_hnrb 4y ago
I'm curious, what country are you in?
- trh0awayman 4y ago
  Germany

yourusername 4y ago

I'll just be cold. Warm socks and sweaters. Warm water is a luxury and i can do without.

TacticalCoder 4y ago

> Europeans, what are you doing for preparation? By chance I moved to a country with mild winter, close to the seaside (which helps regulate the weather, both in summer and in winter). I just had my open fireplace (which wastes 80% of the burned wood's energy and which requires me to constantly refill) replaced with an efficient closed one (which moreover looks gorgeous). 5 K EUR investment which I'll regain on energy bills in no time. Buying wood is great, especially so if you happen to have an efficient way of burning it (which an open fireplace certainly isn't). I'm, so far, one of those who still can deal with crazy energy price raises but I wouldn't want to suffer actual gaz or electricity shortages preventing me from warming the house during the few cold months. A fireplace and reserves of wood, medieval style, should help.

Thlom 4y ago
I'm in one of few electricity markets in Europe with below average prices at the moment (we don't use gas for heating here), but just in case shit hits the fan here as well I've bought two pallets of firewood. If that's not enough I've got access to more at my family's cabin. Bought a limestone fireplace for 6K euros or so a few years ago, if we get the same crazy prices the rest of you got it might have paid for itself in a couple of years. :)

scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago

Making more money? It’s not like we won’t have heat at all. Bills and prices will just become super high. The fact that everyone knows this will blunt impact. I’m seeing lots of city lights out or turned down. Smart energy use will probably become a bigger topic. I live in a big Polish city though, so someone will just take care of it and charge me. For people who own houses and live outside cities I have heard of friends’ parents stockpiling coal, fuel, wood etc. And that it can be difficult to buy those at reasonable prices. However I think it is important to remember at moments like this that we live in the 1st world and in 2022. We have gotten used to cheap luxuries. Headlines would like us to have great fear in losing even a little tiny bit. But I don’t think this is the case. Normal people aren’t afraid at all, they’re just pissed that everything is expensive. Everyone understands that there is a war going on, and that there are very important values which we represent as the EU. In this attack the enemy intends to cripple those beliefs by creating discomfort for us. They want to prove to themselves that we are these decadent materialists that go into a mass hysteria at first sign of trouble. But we got hit by a huge wave of refugees, and instead of lashing out at them, we’ve made them feel welcome. I suspect something similar will be the case here - people will just do what they can to conserve energy.

picsao 4y ago
The wave was small compared to what's yet to come. And we can already perceive a rise in authoritarian governments and decline of left institutions. Putin is accelerating a declining process well underway and though we still will be here afterwards, we might not recognize ourselves in the mirror. War is to force your enemy to change his behavior by force. Putin might actually on the verge of victory here.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>Making more money? Yeah, tell that to people in Eastern Europe where pensioners will have to decide between paying for heating and paying for medicine. Maybe boomers in Western EU countries like Netherlands or Germany will be fine with their 3 houses they rent out to supplement their "measly" 2k Euro pensions, but in eastern Europe boomers don't have it too good with their 200 Euro pensions living in uninsulated shacks or commie blocks.

secretsatan 4y ago

I just ordered myself a paraffin camping lamp, I already had stacks of candles but they were more for mood. And of course I have a torch, but I always worry about batteries, so another backup isn't so bad. I'm not anticipating major blackouts or anything, just made me think back to my childhood when blackouts did occasionally happen, and we had one of those lamps and it was more versatile than candles. They are talking about possible blackouts here, but it's early days.

hef19898 4y ago

Nothing, because German gas recervoirs are being filled up right noe. Switching from gas heating to a heat pump is not feasible time and budget wise. The first gas consumers to be cut off will be public pools and offices. Prices will go up, but not to a level tgat will hurt us, those that will be hurt will get public subsidies.

davedx 4y ago

Signed a 3y contract with my energy supplier and turned the thermostat down a bit. Likely we will just absorb the extra cost. Our household expenditures also went up significantly due to food inflation too I think (Netherlands)

t0bia_s 4y ago
Contracts doesn't matter. Our energy supplier rose prices (600%) a month before end of contract. It was something like "accept or leave without penalty". So I left.

rejectfinite 4y ago

Nothing. I'm in an apartment lol. I don't use much electricity and I don't pay separate for heating.

glogla 4y ago

Nothing. Most of my country's power comes from nuclear and coal power plants, and most of heat is district heating using waste heat from the plants. We're going to be impacted by electricity prices but that's about it. The biggest way this affected me is I started to despise Germans. They cause this with their anti-nuclear bullshit. They emboldened Russia. At least half of Ukrainian blood spilled is on German hands.

hef19898 4y ago
The last paragraph is a lot of strong opinion with a whole lot less basis in reality and facts.
- glogla 4y ago
  Lemme guess, you're German. EDIT: comment history talks of "pro-nuclear crowd" and shows arrogant and dismissive behavior. German for sure.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Yes, but that's not the point. Germany never used electricity to heat, we always used gas. And we always got a significant amount of that gas from the USSR and then Russia. So the German ramp-down of nuclear power has nothing to do with the current energy, including heat and electricity, situation. And saying half of the Ukrainian blood is on Germany's hand is such a strong argument that some explanation, besides personal feelings, would be helpfull. Besides, I call those things out every time I see them, be that Gorbatchev and Afghanistan, the US and Iraq, France and Algeria...
    - glogla 4y ago
      Germany chose to use Russian gas for heating. You are the richest country in Europe, you could have been on heat pumps long ago. You instead decided to keep using gas, to give more money to Putin.
      - 4y ago

t0bia_s 4y ago

We started with wood last winter (I live in big city in middle of Europe). And we continue this year. Actually it's not that big deal with heat. Electricity is more problematic.

brnt 4y ago

Heatpumps had been trendy for a while now in NL, and if you can supply and install them, you are having a great time right now. I managed to snap up one of the last relatively favourable long term energy contracts that controls the damage a bit, and fortuitously I had solar panels installed a year ago. For a heatpump we'd need to replace all radiators as well, so it's something I'll have to get done before the contract is up.