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239 EUR, yikes. That's 10 EUR less than I paid for my super automatic espresso machine. I guess it may be worth it if it lasts a lifetime (which my espresso mac

by morsch 4y ago

239 EUR, yikes. That's 10 EUR less than I paid for my super automatic espresso machine. I guess it may be worth it if it lasts a lifetime (which my espresso machine won't, even though it's been going strong for like 7 years). Edit: Ah, 239 is the MSRP, you can get it for 200, less when it's on sale.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>239 EUR, yikes. That's 10 EUR less than I paid for my super automatic espresso machine Sorry to break it to you, but that's actually not much money for what good drip machines usually cost. I don't want to sound like a snob (I promise I'm not), but at 229 Euros your "super automatic espresso machine" is probably pretty junk Aldi/Lidl-grade machine or some budget DeLonghi/Philips, that make awful espresso, no offence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuFQbiIVUkw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuFQbiIVUkw 229 Euros is the cost of a good electric grinder alone, while a decent non-automatic espresso machine starts at north of ~500 Euros for the most basic models, from Sage for example, and fully automatic ones from Jura go for north of ~2000 Euros. And those brands and prices aren't some snobby enthusiast grade luxury one-of-a-kind machines, but your basic home/small office appliances from reputable makers in the industry. Yeah, making great espresso is hard as it has so may variables and automatic machines that can pull it off with minimal human intervention are very very expensive. Which is why I recommend people on a budget stay away from automatic machines in that price range as they suck. I'd recommend James Hoffmann on YouTube for a deep dive into the world of coffee, espresso, grinders and coffee machines. He really opened my horizons to the world of great tasting coffee, with the downside that now, the coffee that I though I enjoyed, and most other commercial made coffee, tastes like crap to me haha.
- morsch 4y ago
  You do sound like a snob! It's a De'Longhi Magnifica S (typically 300 EUR, 250 on sale). Yes, that's their entry level offering. It's not junk. The coffee is fine. I buy decent beans, which helps. I'd recommend it to everyone who just likes coffee, but isn't interested in making it their hobby.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    I'm sorry if it sounded like that but you won't get any snobbery from me, my coffee gear is under €100. I'm just trying to provide useful information. You can also like good coffee without making it your hobby, but unfortunately those cheapo budget brand machines aren't it chief. At that price range, their grind uniformity alone must be awful since the corner cutting is taken to the extreme to hit that low price point. Yeah they make "coffee", but not good coffee, which I guess for most consumers that never tasted good coffee and have no standards and just need a hit of caffeine in the morning is fine, which is why they sell so well to the general public, but if you buy great beans, running them through a cheap and lousy machine is kinda wasteful, as you're not getting the most out of your expensive beans. I also though the coffee my cheap machines at home/office was great for many years, until I tried a Sage, Jura or other methods/grinders that really make good coffee and I couldn't drink the previous coffee anymore. It tasted trash. There is no comparison, the difference is night and day. But if you enjoy yours that's fine and that's all that matters.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - morsch 4y ago
      Oh, don't worry, I'm sure you'd consider the beans I buy "pretty junk".
      - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        I was only trying to be helpful and extend your horizon to what objectively makes great coffee. Nothing wrong with going for budget options all the time if that's what you're into (traditional German stinginess I guess, haha :D), but there's a reason most good coffee and appliances cost what they cost, and you can definitely taste it without being a snob.
Freak_NL 4y ago
I bought mine second hand for €100. Totally worth it, and if it breaks down, I can fix it. The only reason the seller sold it is because he was a chef with limited kitchen space who went fully French press. It's not a complex machine at all, and friendly to tinkerers in the choice of fasteners, materials, and design. It's generally regarded as a pretty machine as well. Should I ever lose this one (in a fire I guess) I would buy a new one for the full price in a heart beat. You won't find many cheaper models that have the grounds and water reservoir not under the same cover. Most €50 to €100 models have them under a shared lid, because that particular design (while flawed as noted above) is cheap to manufacture. You also won't find cheaper models that haven't been over-optimized for production costs and where the cutting of corners will render them broken in ten years time. It doesn't grind your beans for you, but for that I simply use a vintage wall mounted grinder I restored. Those can be had for a few Euro in any charity shop.
- morsch 4y ago
  I'm not an expert when it comes to drip coffee makers, but I had a cursory glance at Media Markt's offerings. There's an entire category of machines with a removable water tank (which implies a separate lid), with machines starting at 33 EUR for a Grundig and 40 EUR for a Bosch. They're not as pretty, though.
HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
This shouldn't be downvoted. It's an honest representation of the situation. The reality is that most consumers (and I'm one of them) will not pay $200 for a coffeemaker when they can buy a $20 one every few years. It's simply not worth it to most of us. OTOH, a long time ago I spent $200 on a KitchenAid mixer that is all but indestructible and has a healthy supply of spare parts for the occasions when something does break. Having a mixer that can power through stiff bread dough is worth $200 (probably far more now due to inflation) to me. Having a coffeemaker that's easy to clean is not.

by morsch 4y ago

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

>239 EUR, yikes. That's 10 EUR less than I paid for my super automatic espresso machine Sorry to break it to you, but that's actually not much money for what good drip machines usually cost. I don't want to sound like a snob (I promise I'm not), but at 229 Euros your "super automatic espresso machine" is probably pretty junk Aldi/Lidl-grade machine or some budget DeLonghi/Philips, that make awful espresso, no offence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuFQbiIVUkw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuFQbiIVUkw 229 Euros is the cost of a good electric grinder alone, while a decent non-automatic espresso machine starts at north of ~500 Euros for the most basic models, from Sage for example, and fully automatic ones from Jura go for north of ~2000 Euros. And those brands and prices aren't some snobby enthusiast grade luxury one-of-a-kind machines, but your basic home/small office appliances from reputable makers in the industry. Yeah, making great espresso is hard as it has so may variables and automatic machines that can pull it off with minimal human intervention are very very expensive. Which is why I recommend people on a budget stay away from automatic machines in that price range as they suck. I'd recommend James Hoffmann on YouTube for a deep dive into the world of coffee, espresso, grinders and coffee machines. He really opened my horizons to the world of great tasting coffee, with the downside that now, the coffee that I though I enjoyed, and most other commercial made coffee, tastes like crap to me haha.

morsch 4y ago
You do sound like a snob! It's a De'Longhi Magnifica S (typically 300 EUR, 250 on sale). Yes, that's their entry level offering. It's not junk. The coffee is fine. I buy decent beans, which helps. I'd recommend it to everyone who just likes coffee, but isn't interested in making it their hobby.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  I'm sorry if it sounded like that but you won't get any snobbery from me, my coffee gear is under €100. I'm just trying to provide useful information. You can also like good coffee without making it your hobby, but unfortunately those cheapo budget brand machines aren't it chief. At that price range, their grind uniformity alone must be awful since the corner cutting is taken to the extreme to hit that low price point. Yeah they make "coffee", but not good coffee, which I guess for most consumers that never tasted good coffee and have no standards and just need a hit of caffeine in the morning is fine, which is why they sell so well to the general public, but if you buy great beans, running them through a cheap and lousy machine is kinda wasteful, as you're not getting the most out of your expensive beans. I also though the coffee my cheap machines at home/office was great for many years, until I tried a Sage, Jura or other methods/grinders that really make good coffee and I couldn't drink the previous coffee anymore. It tasted trash. There is no comparison, the difference is night and day. But if you enjoy yours that's fine and that's all that matters.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - morsch 4y ago
    Oh, don't worry, I'm sure you'd consider the beans I buy "pretty junk".
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      I was only trying to be helpful and extend your horizon to what objectively makes great coffee. Nothing wrong with going for budget options all the time if that's what you're into (traditional German stinginess I guess, haha :D), but there's a reason most good coffee and appliances cost what they cost, and you can definitely taste it without being a snob.

Freak_NL 4y ago

I bought mine second hand for €100. Totally worth it, and if it breaks down, I can fix it. The only reason the seller sold it is because he was a chef with limited kitchen space who went fully French press. It's not a complex machine at all, and friendly to tinkerers in the choice of fasteners, materials, and design. It's generally regarded as a pretty machine as well. Should I ever lose this one (in a fire I guess) I would buy a new one for the full price in a heart beat. You won't find many cheaper models that have the grounds and water reservoir not under the same cover. Most €50 to €100 models have them under a shared lid, because that particular design (while flawed as noted above) is cheap to manufacture. You also won't find cheaper models that haven't been over-optimized for production costs and where the cutting of corners will render them broken in ten years time. It doesn't grind your beans for you, but for that I simply use a vintage wall mounted grinder I restored. Those can be had for a few Euro in any charity shop.

morsch 4y ago
I'm not an expert when it comes to drip coffee makers, but I had a cursory glance at Media Markt's offerings. There's an entire category of machines with a removable water tank (which implies a separate lid), with machines starting at 33 EUR for a Grundig and 40 EUR for a Bosch. They're not as pretty, though.

HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago

This shouldn't be downvoted. It's an honest representation of the situation. The reality is that most consumers (and I'm one of them) will not pay $200 for a coffeemaker when they can buy a $20 one every few years. It's simply not worth it to most of us. OTOH, a long time ago I spent $200 on a KitchenAid mixer that is all but indestructible and has a healthy supply of spare parts for the occasions when something does break. Having a mixer that can power through stiff bread dough is worth $200 (probably far more now due to inflation) to me. Having a coffeemaker that's easy to clean is not.