5 ms·

I used to work for Lexmark, back when they were in the inkjet business. They are perhaps most notable for starting and fueling the race to the bottom in printer

I used to work for Lexmark, back when they were in the inkjet business. They are perhaps most notable for starting and fueling the race to the bottom in printer price. The theory was that if you could lock the users in, the customer lifetime value would be made on selling profitably prices supplies (i.e. the ink cartridge). There were a few big problems with this: - People often could buy a new printer, with supplies included, for cheaper than a new set of cartridges. - The primary focus of new printer development was on eliminating as much cost as possible. - Refillers and remanufacturers compete with the official supplies. The result was an almost completely customer-hostile industry. Printers became worse over the years. DRM and write-only memory were used to try to stop refilling and remanufacturing. Expiry of the ink was considered a good thing, as it would force customers to buy more ink even if they had low usage. While I was there, Lexmark sometimes made losses by selling too many printers. About a decade ago, they left the inkjet industry, which they had played a major role in wrecking. Laser has come down in price to the point that it has largely supplanted inkjet for light-duty use. The manufacturers in the home/small office laser market haven't been quite as hostile. Interestingly, we're seeing a similar dynamic play out in the venture-backed startup world of the past decade. What's old is new. Companies eventually started marketing higher quality machines, targeted towards power users with broader needs. But the era of the bargain inkjet printers seems to be pretty much over. Also, it took an entire generation, but we're finally much further along towards the paperless office/society.

mu_killnine 4y ago
Just an anecdote: my grandfather passed away a few years ago and he was always into new technology. After he passed when we were cleaning up his home we found no fewer than 11 inkjet printers in his basement. Every time one stopped working (probably ran out of ink, or printed poorly because of long delays between printing) he would go to Best Buy, get talked up by a salesperson about a nice new printer, and buy it. It's just incredible to see this story in action.
- treeman79 4y ago
  He may have been smart. Cost of printer with starter ink was occasionally cheaper then just getting new ink.
  - mu_killnine 4y ago
    Yeah, totally. He only printed things a few times a year and by then inkjets usually dry and print poorly. I don't fault him but it's interesting to these strange market forces in my life. As an aside, my grandfather was a terrific guy. He bought a Gateway 2000 PC in the 90's and spent lots of time with me getting Sim City 2000 loaded up on it. He always had some gadget to show me since he knew how much I loved technology and he was very good at it for someone of his generation. I don't begrudge recycling 11 printers as I cleaned up his house and it always gives my dad and I a good laugh and nice memories of an important person in my life.
    - tomcam 4y ago
      Lovely story. Never knew any of my grandparents and my kids chose not to have kids, so no grandchildren to spoil.
  - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
    But the starter cartridges are probably only partially filled.
    - theandrewbailey 4y ago
      Does it really matter if you're only printing a dozen or so pages a year? They might dry out before going completely empty.
    - nirimda 4y ago
      But if you bought full cartridges they would be expired or clogged before you half-used them.
    - MerelyMortal 4y ago
      They are these days, but did printers always used to come with "starter cartridges"?
- bluedino 4y ago
  >> he would go to Best Buy, get talked up by a salesperson about a nice new printer, and buy it. In a past life I worked at Best Buy, and the standard printer sales tactics were nuts. If a customer wanted to buy a printer, you were supposed to sell them: 2 packs of color ink (remind the customer that the included cartridges are only half-full) 2 packs of black ink 4 reams of regular paper 2 packages of photo paper GOLD printer cable The Best Buy Service Plan, of course
  - marpstar 4y ago
    Fellow former $BBY-er here... you gotta admit, the bundle pricing Best Buy ran on all of that stuff (with the purchase of a new printer, of course) made it so easy to talk them into it. When I started I had just left commission-based sales in electronics at Sears and I was amazed at how much better Best Buy was at pushing accessories with big ticket items.
  - doubled112 4y ago
    The GOLD printer cable used to get me. At Staples they also told us something about better USB cables for faster, more reliable printing. How bad does your existing USB cable need to be before it starts to cause your printing to fail? Stop running it over with your chair.
    - muttled 4y ago
      Reminds me of a story of a printer I installed for a customer (could have been Lexmark? It was a very cheap printer). It came with an unpowered USB hub which I thought was odd. The printer was not printing right. I happened to read the instructions for once out of frustration and it mentioned that you MUST use the USB hub. That didn't make any sense as usually a troubleshooting step is to remove the USB hub. But when I put the hub into the chain, the printer started working correctly. I wish I still had the model number to prove it, but there were knowledgebase articles about the hub being required. Probably to correct some mistake in manufacturing where it was cheaper to include the hub than fix all the printers.
  - calvinmorrison 4y ago
- gonzo41 4y ago
  And all 11 of those will still be in landfill when your childrens children are old and dying. It's a pity they didn't make them out of metals that could be easily recycled.
  - giancarlostoro 4y ago
    Just curious what metals would be affordable and durable that would not bring the cost of cheap printers up too high?
    - gonzo41 4y ago
      There really aren't any sadly. Maybe cast magnesium, like in sewing machines. It'd be better if the printer was built out of some bio-polymer plastic so it just fell apart after 20 years. But we're rapidly getting to a paperless society so give it 10-20 years it'll be less of an issue.
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      All of them, Aluminium is 2.49 USD per KG, steel is like 4 times cheaper. We use plastics because they can be moulded into any shape in seconds. Aluminium is used for premium products instead of steel because it's easier to manufacture into shape - you can cut an aluminium beam as large as your arm with a hacksaw in a minute or two. If that was structural steel, you would batrely make a dent in hours. This reflects on wear of cutting and shaping equipment in factories too. Stainless steel is the king of materials, but a bitch to work with, that's why you only ever see simple shapes made out of it.
      - djmips 4y ago
        An oxy/acetylene torch can cut steel in seconds. Plasma also.
- ajford 4y ago
  My dad ran a pet grooming business, and he went through probably a printer a year. I always figured it died because of the amount of pet fur in the air clogging up the printer, so at one point I asked him why he didn't put a door on the office to keep the fur out so his printer wouldn't get jammed up with pet fur. He told me they weren't replaced because the fur killed them, it just wasn't worth replacing the inks since it was so damn expensive. It was always cheaper for him to replace the printer instead of replacing the ink, and because he never held onto a printer for much longer than a year he never bothered trying to keep it protected from the shop environment. About the only think he ever printed was the occasional door flyer, checklists and general office paperwork, probably a single ream of paper a year at most.
  - Jiro 4y ago
    They sell you printers with half empty cartridges to prevent [people buying new printers for the cartridges.
    - ajford 4y ago
      They do, but in over a decade that I remember him buying and replacing printers for the groom shop, I think he only ended up buying replacement ink (because he actually used all of it in under a year) maybe twice. I think that was when the local print shop either shut down or was too backlogged for my dad to get his business cards done in reasonable time so he used print-at-home business card sheets for a bit to tide him over.
- hnbear 4y ago
  I got a great deal on a Canon MF743C (a pretty decent color laser multi-function). MRSP is something like $600 (but in deals can be $400). A guy on FB marketplace was locally selling one brand new for $250 (and took $175 if I picked up same day), because his dad had one that ran out of toner so the father had just bought a new one. It actually came with the new receipts from Best Buy. Looks like BB upsold on lasers too. Except, it's a low-end business class laser, and they last forever. This thing is great.
theandrewbailey 4y ago
My uncle bought a Lexmark inkjet for my parents about 20 years ago. If anyone wanted to print something, it was a 50% chance there would be some problem (driver issues, wouldn't turn on, ink dried out, etc), and another 50% chance that it would be recoverable and result in an acceptable printout. It was such a piece of crap that it made me avoid printers of all kinds because of the trauma. I swear that the Canon inkjet that came with the old 486 was more reliable. I got a Canon laser printer 2 years ago. I guess I'm a boomer now.
giancarlostoro 4y ago
> - People often could buy a new printer, with supplies included, for cheaper than a new set of cartridges. I have a relative that does this all the time. Personally, if it costs me more than it cost me to buy a cheap printer to refill it I will likely do the same thing. I just don't print enough to justify.
smileybarry 4y ago
> - People often could buy a new printer, with supplies included, for cheaper than a new set of cartridges. I had a friend who would actually do this -- every time they ran out of ink, they'd buy a new printer. I found out when I helped him troubleshoot something and saw 5+ different printer drivers installed. After he told me about it, he opened the closet door to reveal a (actual) leaning tower of printers
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
simonebrunozzi 4y ago
> Interestingly, we're seeing a similar dynamic play out in the venture-backed startup world of the past decade. What's old is new. Related to the printing industry? (if so, I'd like to hear more) Or do you mean in general?

mu_killnine 4y ago

Just an anecdote: my grandfather passed away a few years ago and he was always into new technology. After he passed when we were cleaning up his home we found no fewer than 11 inkjet printers in his basement. Every time one stopped working (probably ran out of ink, or printed poorly because of long delays between printing) he would go to Best Buy, get talked up by a salesperson about a nice new printer, and buy it. It's just incredible to see this story in action.

treeman79 4y ago
He may have been smart. Cost of printer with starter ink was occasionally cheaper then just getting new ink.
- mu_killnine 4y ago
  Yeah, totally. He only printed things a few times a year and by then inkjets usually dry and print poorly. I don't fault him but it's interesting to these strange market forces in my life. As an aside, my grandfather was a terrific guy. He bought a Gateway 2000 PC in the 90's and spent lots of time with me getting Sim City 2000 loaded up on it. He always had some gadget to show me since he knew how much I loved technology and he was very good at it for someone of his generation. I don't begrudge recycling 11 printers as I cleaned up his house and it always gives my dad and I a good laugh and nice memories of an important person in my life.
  - tomcam 4y ago
    Lovely story. Never knew any of my grandparents and my kids chose not to have kids, so no grandchildren to spoil.
- Tijdreiziger 4y ago
  But the starter cartridges are probably only partially filled.
  - theandrewbailey 4y ago
    Does it really matter if you're only printing a dozen or so pages a year? They might dry out before going completely empty.
  - nirimda 4y ago
    But if you bought full cartridges they would be expired or clogged before you half-used them.
  - MerelyMortal 4y ago
    They are these days, but did printers always used to come with "starter cartridges"?
bluedino 4y ago
>> he would go to Best Buy, get talked up by a salesperson about a nice new printer, and buy it. In a past life I worked at Best Buy, and the standard printer sales tactics were nuts. If a customer wanted to buy a printer, you were supposed to sell them: 2 packs of color ink (remind the customer that the included cartridges are only half-full) 2 packs of black ink 4 reams of regular paper 2 packages of photo paper GOLD printer cable The Best Buy Service Plan, of course
- marpstar 4y ago
  Fellow former $BBY-er here... you gotta admit, the bundle pricing Best Buy ran on all of that stuff (with the purchase of a new printer, of course) made it so easy to talk them into it. When I started I had just left commission-based sales in electronics at Sears and I was amazed at how much better Best Buy was at pushing accessories with big ticket items.
- doubled112 4y ago
  The GOLD printer cable used to get me. At Staples they also told us something about better USB cables for faster, more reliable printing. How bad does your existing USB cable need to be before it starts to cause your printing to fail? Stop running it over with your chair.
  - muttled 4y ago
    Reminds me of a story of a printer I installed for a customer (could have been Lexmark? It was a very cheap printer). It came with an unpowered USB hub which I thought was odd. The printer was not printing right. I happened to read the instructions for once out of frustration and it mentioned that you MUST use the USB hub. That didn't make any sense as usually a troubleshooting step is to remove the USB hub. But when I put the hub into the chain, the printer started working correctly. I wish I still had the model number to prove it, but there were knowledgebase articles about the hub being required. Probably to correct some mistake in manufacturing where it was cheaper to include the hub than fix all the printers.
- calvinmorrison 4y ago
gonzo41 4y ago
And all 11 of those will still be in landfill when your childrens children are old and dying. It's a pity they didn't make them out of metals that could be easily recycled.
- giancarlostoro 4y ago
  Just curious what metals would be affordable and durable that would not bring the cost of cheap printers up too high?
  - gonzo41 4y ago
    There really aren't any sadly. Maybe cast magnesium, like in sewing machines. It'd be better if the printer was built out of some bio-polymer plastic so it just fell apart after 20 years. But we're rapidly getting to a paperless society so give it 10-20 years it'll be less of an issue.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    All of them, Aluminium is 2.49 USD per KG, steel is like 4 times cheaper. We use plastics because they can be moulded into any shape in seconds. Aluminium is used for premium products instead of steel because it's easier to manufacture into shape - you can cut an aluminium beam as large as your arm with a hacksaw in a minute or two. If that was structural steel, you would batrely make a dent in hours. This reflects on wear of cutting and shaping equipment in factories too. Stainless steel is the king of materials, but a bitch to work with, that's why you only ever see simple shapes made out of it.
    - djmips 4y ago
      An oxy/acetylene torch can cut steel in seconds. Plasma also.
ajford 4y ago
My dad ran a pet grooming business, and he went through probably a printer a year. I always figured it died because of the amount of pet fur in the air clogging up the printer, so at one point I asked him why he didn't put a door on the office to keep the fur out so his printer wouldn't get jammed up with pet fur. He told me they weren't replaced because the fur killed them, it just wasn't worth replacing the inks since it was so damn expensive. It was always cheaper for him to replace the printer instead of replacing the ink, and because he never held onto a printer for much longer than a year he never bothered trying to keep it protected from the shop environment. About the only think he ever printed was the occasional door flyer, checklists and general office paperwork, probably a single ream of paper a year at most.
- Jiro 4y ago
  They sell you printers with half empty cartridges to prevent [people buying new printers for the cartridges.
  - ajford 4y ago
    They do, but in over a decade that I remember him buying and replacing printers for the groom shop, I think he only ended up buying replacement ink (because he actually used all of it in under a year) maybe twice. I think that was when the local print shop either shut down or was too backlogged for my dad to get his business cards done in reasonable time so he used print-at-home business card sheets for a bit to tide him over.
hnbear 4y ago
I got a great deal on a Canon MF743C (a pretty decent color laser multi-function). MRSP is something like $600 (but in deals can be $400). A guy on FB marketplace was locally selling one brand new for $250 (and took $175 if I picked up same day), because his dad had one that ran out of toner so the father had just bought a new one. It actually came with the new receipts from Best Buy. Looks like BB upsold on lasers too. Except, it's a low-end business class laser, and they last forever. This thing is great.

theandrewbailey 4y ago

My uncle bought a Lexmark inkjet for my parents about 20 years ago. If anyone wanted to print something, it was a 50% chance there would be some problem (driver issues, wouldn't turn on, ink dried out, etc), and another 50% chance that it would be recoverable and result in an acceptable printout. It was such a piece of crap that it made me avoid printers of all kinds because of the trauma. I swear that the Canon inkjet that came with the old 486 was more reliable. I got a Canon laser printer 2 years ago. I guess I'm a boomer now.

giancarlostoro 4y ago

> - People often could buy a new printer, with supplies included, for cheaper than a new set of cartridges. I have a relative that does this all the time. Personally, if it costs me more than it cost me to buy a cheap printer to refill it I will likely do the same thing. I just don't print enough to justify.

smileybarry 4y ago

> - People often could buy a new printer, with supplies included, for cheaper than a new set of cartridges. I had a friend who would actually do this -- every time they ran out of ink, they'd buy a new printer. I found out when I helped him troubleshoot something and saw 5+ different printer drivers installed. After he told me about it, he opened the closet door to reveal a (actual) leaning tower of printers

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

simonebrunozzi 4y ago

> Interestingly, we're seeing a similar dynamic play out in the venture-backed startup world of the past decade. What's old is new. Related to the printing industry? (if so, I'd like to hear more) Or do you mean in general?