7 ms·

> it is more fun and more healthy and more convenient to live in a bike culture city When its 18:30 in November, when weather is cold, dark and raining I don't

by IMTDb 4y ago

> it is more fun and more healthy and more convenient to live in a bike culture city When its 18:30 in November, when weather is cold, dark and raining I don't see anyone enjoying the fun and convenience of the existing bike lanes, why ? Similarly, I don't really see bikes being used to carry the weekly groceries for a family of 4, are they reserved for the people who can afford to go shopping every day and just have to carry few items ?

drekipus 4y ago
> people who can afford to go shopping every day. There isn't an entrance fee to go to the shops. It doesn't cost more the more you go there.
pastacacioepepe 4y ago
I mean people definitely didn't buy groceries before cars existed, right? Obviously if your area is an asphalth wasteland where you have to ride miles to get to the closest mall, bicycles won't work well. That's something that can be changed though. You know that before cars became the de facto mean of private transportation, the streets belonged to the people and kids could freely play outside? That is something we completely forgot, now that we live in post apocalyptic concrete wastelands where simply existing and walking around puts you at danger of being crashed by a vehicle.
throwaway329043 4y ago
18:30 in November on a rainy day, I will absolutely be using my bike to commute to and from work (I'm Dutch). Is it enjoyable? Not really. Is it better than standing in a traffic jam for two hours? Absolutely. Plus on nice days (plenty of those in November, hetregentbijnanooit.nl) you get some nice exercise. Also for groceries. My mum used to do them for a family of 5 with saddle bags.
tpm 4y ago
It's a habit. The weather usually looks worse from inside than outside. In any case, people do use bikes during the whole year. And if you have to carry a lot of cargo, use a cargo bike. It's not an accident their popularity is skyrocketing.
skhr0680 4y ago
“Weekly” is the keyword. I live in a city where it’s normal to go shopping every 1-2 days, and city bikes have a basket that will fit that amount of groceries. It’s not as inconvenient as it sounds because there is usually a grocery store within walking and definitely one within biking distance.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  >I live in a city where it’s normal to go shopping every 1-2 days >It’s not as inconvenient as it sounds because there is usually a grocery store within walking and definitely one within biking distance. I've lived exactly what you are describing and I would not go back to it given the option. There's a pretty substantial opportunity cost difference between shopping weekly and shopping every couple days. That's time you could spend doing other things you actually want to do. And if the store that's on your way is in a prime location then there is probably a monetary cost too. Edit: Since I'm apparently wrong would anyone care to point out my error?
  - kiba 4y ago
    Time is spent on going to a grocery store in a car too. That's also a substantial cost. With proper urban planning, it wouldn't be a PITA to shop for grocery since it will be close to you. But it's not like you can't shop weekly with a bike too. Cargo bikes can carry more grocery than usual. Coupled with electric assist, it shouldn't be too bad.
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      Oh, it's definitely possible to shop weekly, especially with a modern e-bike. I used to do it with a big backpack and a shitty walamrt bike when I lived in the city because the good (read: cheap) grocery store was inconveniently located. I just take issue with the lunacy that adding an extra errand and the associated overhead, even if it's just a stop on your way home, doesn't have a cost.
  - watwut 4y ago
    It is actually less of bother or time suck then weekly/bi-weekly car trip. You typically stop by in the way home from work in smaller store where you can pop in/out super quick. It also requires less organizing and planning. Weekly/bi-weekly car trip is something like 2-3 hours of your time. The other bonuses are that sometimes you just send kids to fetch bread or whatever.
11235813213455 4y ago
You don't see it because it's rare, but it's possible and just not cultural thing anymore in "rich" countries. It's even seen as sign of poverty to do that, it's a shame, that's the main reason, along with security because of the prevalence of cars and the danger they represent I use my bike almost daily since decades, cold and dark is not an issue (you never really feel cold on a bike as long as you're active/pedaling), rain and wind a bit more, I can carry 20kg of stuff on my bike, bags on my back and front and crate on the handlebar
djrobstep 4y ago
I own a cargo bike and regularly use it in bad weather to go to the supermarket and get a full load of groceries. Works great, much more fun and a better workout than a car. Invest in a good jacket and the cold/rain won't bother you.
campl3r 4y ago
I do see people enjoying the convenience of bikes all over winter. Where I shop families do their weekly groceries with cargo bikes or just two bike bags. We got different experiences, probably live in different cities and countries and now? Both of them are just singular experiences strongly depending on the specific circumstances of our lives and of the concrete available good infrastructure.
pg314 4y ago
Family of four here, all groceries done with a cargo bike, year round. And I’m definitely not the only one where I live. You can wear warmer clothes if it’s cold, the bike has lights (and there are street lights) for when it’s dark, and a raincoat and rain cover for the bike work well against the rain. Definitely more fun and healthier than a car.
samatman 4y ago
Somewhat dismissive but this comment deserves at least one earnest reply. The culture hasn't caught up with the power and availability of electric cargo bikes. Carrying four bags of groceries two or four miles is trivial in good weather, practical in a lot of poor weather, and you can probably manage six, you can hitch a trailer and go to CostCo if there's a safe path for that. Anyone can do that if they don't have severe hip immobility, because you pedal when you want to, not when you want to move. It's great for the cold but not deep winter parts of the year: you start moving with the throttle, and pedal to warm up, you can stop before you start sweating into your jacket. In summer, you can work up a sweat, or enjoy 20kmh breeze and just cruise. They cost a few grand, can come with an eighty mile range, and handle realistic traffic speeds safely. Once the public consciousness notices these things, you'll see a lot more of them. Edit: I said "a few" grand but there are a couple compelling bikes which come in under 2K.
dr_dshiv 4y ago
I don’t know why your question is downvoted, it is totally valid. We literally live above a grocery store, but my wife still orders grocery delivery on a weekly basis. So maybe cars aren’t necessary if they can be substituted by grocery delivery and smaller loads on bike. You also raise the reality of cold dark and rainy novembers… well, when my son complains about biking to his guitar lessons on days like that, I hand him his rain pants. Builds character!! But, biking on snowy days is too dangerous. It is so easy to slip and fall. We have maybe 2 snowy days a year (Amsterdam) and the city pretty much shuts down. However, where I grew up (Cleveland), there were many many snowy days. So, sensitive to the fact that cars are still necessary in many places.

by IMTDb 4y ago

drekipus 4y ago

> people who can afford to go shopping every day. There isn't an entrance fee to go to the shops. It doesn't cost more the more you go there.

pastacacioepepe 4y ago

I mean people definitely didn't buy groceries before cars existed, right? Obviously if your area is an asphalth wasteland where you have to ride miles to get to the closest mall, bicycles won't work well. That's something that can be changed though. You know that before cars became the de facto mean of private transportation, the streets belonged to the people and kids could freely play outside? That is something we completely forgot, now that we live in post apocalyptic concrete wastelands where simply existing and walking around puts you at danger of being crashed by a vehicle.

throwaway329043 4y ago

18:30 in November on a rainy day, I will absolutely be using my bike to commute to and from work (I'm Dutch). Is it enjoyable? Not really. Is it better than standing in a traffic jam for two hours? Absolutely. Plus on nice days (plenty of those in November, hetregentbijnanooit.nl) you get some nice exercise. Also for groceries. My mum used to do them for a family of 5 with saddle bags.

tpm 4y ago

It's a habit. The weather usually looks worse from inside than outside. In any case, people do use bikes during the whole year. And if you have to carry a lot of cargo, use a cargo bike. It's not an accident their popularity is skyrocketing.

skhr0680 4y ago

“Weekly” is the keyword. I live in a city where it’s normal to go shopping every 1-2 days, and city bikes have a basket that will fit that amount of groceries. It’s not as inconvenient as it sounds because there is usually a grocery store within walking and definitely one within biking distance.

throwaway0a5e 4y ago
>I live in a city where it’s normal to go shopping every 1-2 days >It’s not as inconvenient as it sounds because there is usually a grocery store within walking and definitely one within biking distance. I've lived exactly what you are describing and I would not go back to it given the option. There's a pretty substantial opportunity cost difference between shopping weekly and shopping every couple days. That's time you could spend doing other things you actually want to do. And if the store that's on your way is in a prime location then there is probably a monetary cost too. Edit: Since I'm apparently wrong would anyone care to point out my error?
- kiba 4y ago
  Time is spent on going to a grocery store in a car too. That's also a substantial cost. With proper urban planning, it wouldn't be a PITA to shop for grocery since it will be close to you. But it's not like you can't shop weekly with a bike too. Cargo bikes can carry more grocery than usual. Coupled with electric assist, it shouldn't be too bad.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    Oh, it's definitely possible to shop weekly, especially with a modern e-bike. I used to do it with a big backpack and a shitty walamrt bike when I lived in the city because the good (read: cheap) grocery store was inconveniently located. I just take issue with the lunacy that adding an extra errand and the associated overhead, even if it's just a stop on your way home, doesn't have a cost.
- watwut 4y ago
  It is actually less of bother or time suck then weekly/bi-weekly car trip. You typically stop by in the way home from work in smaller store where you can pop in/out super quick. It also requires less organizing and planning. Weekly/bi-weekly car trip is something like 2-3 hours of your time. The other bonuses are that sometimes you just send kids to fetch bread or whatever.

11235813213455 4y ago

You don't see it because it's rare, but it's possible and just not cultural thing anymore in "rich" countries. It's even seen as sign of poverty to do that, it's a shame, that's the main reason, along with security because of the prevalence of cars and the danger they represent I use my bike almost daily since decades, cold and dark is not an issue (you never really feel cold on a bike as long as you're active/pedaling), rain and wind a bit more, I can carry 20kg of stuff on my bike, bags on my back and front and crate on the handlebar

djrobstep 4y ago

I own a cargo bike and regularly use it in bad weather to go to the supermarket and get a full load of groceries. Works great, much more fun and a better workout than a car. Invest in a good jacket and the cold/rain won't bother you.

campl3r 4y ago

I do see people enjoying the convenience of bikes all over winter. Where I shop families do their weekly groceries with cargo bikes or just two bike bags. We got different experiences, probably live in different cities and countries and now? Both of them are just singular experiences strongly depending on the specific circumstances of our lives and of the concrete available good infrastructure.

pg314 4y ago

Family of four here, all groceries done with a cargo bike, year round. And I’m definitely not the only one where I live. You can wear warmer clothes if it’s cold, the bike has lights (and there are street lights) for when it’s dark, and a raincoat and rain cover for the bike work well against the rain. Definitely more fun and healthier than a car.

samatman 4y ago

Somewhat dismissive but this comment deserves at least one earnest reply. The culture hasn't caught up with the power and availability of electric cargo bikes. Carrying four bags of groceries two or four miles is trivial in good weather, practical in a lot of poor weather, and you can probably manage six, you can hitch a trailer and go to CostCo if there's a safe path for that. Anyone can do that if they don't have severe hip immobility, because you pedal when you want to, not when you want to move. It's great for the cold but not deep winter parts of the year: you start moving with the throttle, and pedal to warm up, you can stop before you start sweating into your jacket. In summer, you can work up a sweat, or enjoy 20kmh breeze and just cruise. They cost a few grand, can come with an eighty mile range, and handle realistic traffic speeds safely. Once the public consciousness notices these things, you'll see a lot more of them. Edit: I said "a few" grand but there are a couple compelling bikes which come in under 2K.

dr_dshiv 4y ago

I don’t know why your question is downvoted, it is totally valid. We literally live above a grocery store, but my wife still orders grocery delivery on a weekly basis. So maybe cars aren’t necessary if they can be substituted by grocery delivery and smaller loads on bike. You also raise the reality of cold dark and rainy novembers… well, when my son complains about biking to his guitar lessons on days like that, I hand him his rain pants. Builds character!! But, biking on snowy days is too dangerous. It is so easy to slip and fall. We have maybe 2 snowy days a year (Amsterdam) and the city pretty much shuts down. However, where I grew up (Cleveland), there were many many snowy days. So, sensitive to the fact that cars are still necessary in many places.