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Eru has a decent HN reputation, so I'll engage. First, the private sector is not handling this well. Second, we are talking about core infrastructure of socie

Eru has a decent HN reputation, so I'll engage. First, the private sector is not handling this well. Second, we are talking about core infrastructure of society. The question of what is best to solve this, business or government, is indeed complex. Business tends to work well when the value created is short-term and can be easily measured and captured by the entity creating that value. For example, a grocery store. Government tends to work well when the value created is long-term and diffuse, and doesn't have a single point of capture. For example, the road network which the grocery store relies on to get both its goods and its clients to the store. A nation-wide payments system seems to me to fall clearly into the second category. Note that eru is from Singapore, truly a great country where the government has many examples of striking a good balance along the above lines. It isn't perfect, but it is one of the best in the world.

eru 4y ago
I'm actually from (East) Germany, but I moved to Singapore exactly because of the advantages you mentioned. Putting my tax-money where my mouth is, so to speak. And I have to say I am happy with the value-for-tax-money I am getting here. If the private sector in your country can't handle infrastructure, I think the role of government should be to clean up regulatory hurdles and barriers to entry, so that the private sector can handle this task. Honest and competent civil servants are one of the rarest and most precious resource in any country. Affairs should be set up, so as to economize on their time and effort required. Singapore ain't perfect. For example, our government has significant ownership in eg an airline and quite a few other businesses. But still, Singapore is one of the best run countries for a neoliberal. > Business tends to work well when the value created is short-term and can be easily measured and captured by the entity creating that value. For example, a grocery store. I agree. I agree even more: any organisation works best when feedback is immediate. > Government tends to work well when the value created is long-term and diffuse, and doesn't have a single point of capture. For example, the road network which the grocery store relies on to get both its goods and its clients to the store. I disagree. We know that governments work badly at the best of times. Why would anyone think they'll magically start working better when the outcomes are harder to measure? You could try to make an argument that both governments and businesses work badly under these circumstances, but that for some reason governments are slightly less impacted? I mean, it's theoretically possible. But seems unlikely? In your specific scenario: toll roads work just fine. Alternatively, the shop can also choose to subsidise road tolls for their customers. Just like shops often offer free parking already, or other freebies. (And yes, I also think that governments should not be in the business of issuing currency either. At least they shouldn't have a legal monopoly. See eg https://oll.libertyfund.org/title/white-the-theory-of-free-banking-money-supply-under-competitive-note-issue https://oll.libertyfund.org/title/white-the-theory-of-free-b... This is a minority position these days, but one with a long intellectual heritage.)
- FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
  To expand on the toll road example, I will take the radical position that it is exactly the implicit subsidy of roads and automobiles by the government that has resulted in the nightmarish car-culture of the US -- one which has had myriad externalities, including the destruction of town centers, the concentration of commerce in big-box stores in sprawling suburbs, and an annual number of road deaths that is a full 25% of what COVID has wraught, except for every single year forever. If you are an American, you are forced to pay for this atrocity with your tax dollars.
  - avarun 4y ago
    This is honestly a really good point.
  - eru 4y ago
    You might enjoy 'The High Cost of Free Parking'. See eg https://www.econtalk.org/extra/free-parking/ https://www.econtalk.org/extra/free-parking/ (Also https://www.econlib.org/archives/2006/02/economics_of_fr.html https://www.econlib.org/archives/2006/02/economics_of_fr.htm... and https://www.econlib.org/archives/2010/08/why_is_there_fr.html https://www.econlib.org/archives/2010/08/why_is_there_fr.htm... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_High_Cost_of_Free_Parking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_High_Cost_of_Free_Parking )

eru 4y ago

I'm actually from (East) Germany, but I moved to Singapore exactly because of the advantages you mentioned. Putting my tax-money where my mouth is, so to speak. And I have to say I am happy with the value-for-tax-money I am getting here. If the private sector in your country can't handle infrastructure, I think the role of government should be to clean up regulatory hurdles and barriers to entry, so that the private sector can handle this task. Honest and competent civil servants are one of the rarest and most precious resource in any country. Affairs should be set up, so as to economize on their time and effort required. Singapore ain't perfect. For example, our government has significant ownership in eg an airline and quite a few other businesses. But still, Singapore is one of the best run countries for a neoliberal. > Business tends to work well when the value created is short-term and can be easily measured and captured by the entity creating that value. For example, a grocery store. I agree. I agree even more: any organisation works best when feedback is immediate. > Government tends to work well when the value created is long-term and diffuse, and doesn't have a single point of capture. For example, the road network which the grocery store relies on to get both its goods and its clients to the store. I disagree. We know that governments work badly at the best of times. Why would anyone think they'll magically start working better when the outcomes are harder to measure? You could try to make an argument that both governments and businesses work badly under these circumstances, but that for some reason governments are slightly less impacted? I mean, it's theoretically possible. But seems unlikely? In your specific scenario: toll roads work just fine. Alternatively, the shop can also choose to subsidise road tolls for their customers. Just like shops often offer free parking already, or other freebies. (And yes, I also think that governments should not be in the business of issuing currency either. At least they shouldn't have a legal monopoly. See eg https://oll.libertyfund.org/title/white-the-theory-of-free-banking-money-supply-under-competitive-note-issue https://oll.libertyfund.org/title/white-the-theory-of-free-b... This is a minority position these days, but one with a long intellectual heritage.)

FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
To expand on the toll road example, I will take the radical position that it is exactly the implicit subsidy of roads and automobiles by the government that has resulted in the nightmarish car-culture of the US -- one which has had myriad externalities, including the destruction of town centers, the concentration of commerce in big-box stores in sprawling suburbs, and an annual number of road deaths that is a full 25% of what COVID has wraught, except for every single year forever. If you are an American, you are forced to pay for this atrocity with your tax dollars.
- avarun 4y ago
  This is honestly a really good point.
- eru 4y ago
  You might enjoy 'The High Cost of Free Parking'. See eg https://www.econtalk.org/extra/free-parking/ https://www.econtalk.org/extra/free-parking/ (Also https://www.econlib.org/archives/2006/02/economics_of_fr.html https://www.econlib.org/archives/2006/02/economics_of_fr.htm... and https://www.econlib.org/archives/2010/08/why_is_there_fr.html https://www.econlib.org/archives/2010/08/why_is_there_fr.htm... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_High_Cost_of_Free_Parking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_High_Cost_of_Free_Parking )