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Open source rules the world. A lot of people use HashiCorp's OSS products; not a lot pay for them. I certainly haven't and I don't think I've ever met a paying

Open source rules the world. A lot of people use HashiCorp's OSS products; not a lot pay for them. I certainly haven't and I don't think I've ever met a paying Hashicorp customer even though I know lots of people that use their products. They are a consulting business ultimately. And like many such companies they thrive on complexity. They are doomed to become part of the problem they are trying to solve. If they succeed in their mission, the result is OSS software that is so simple to use that nobody needs their consulting services. Like many OSS companies, they confuse control over the software with controlling the wider market. Amazon, Google, MS, etc. don't provide just software but their 630B dollar industry that is enabled by their massive data centers and infrastructure. That's what people pay for. Hashicorp is a small fish in that pond as they don't really own or control any such infrastructure. I'd say they might end up being gobbled up by a bigger consulting company. Oracle and IBM come to mind.

sverhagen 4y ago
Honest question/suggestion: don't you think many big companies are more than happy to pay for the consulting to give them a feeling of comfort and safety, someone to turn to if there's an outage in the middle of the night? Not that I'd need much Hashicorp folks on my "bridge call" when my Websphere cluster runs out of memory, but since IBM and Microsoft are on speed dial (in their million(s) dollar support contracts), we may want the same for Hashicorp. This "we" is not "me", but I did work for this sort of company in the past. Open source made them uncomfortable, consulting may help with that. And sure, it lasts only as long as it does.
nine_k 4y ago
Anybody can go and install Linux on almost anything that computes. How do Red Hat, Canonical, Suse even exist? I'd say two parts are key: support (you can see it as a kind of technology insurance) and customized, tailor-made solutions in more demanding cases. Those who use Hashicorp products for free mostly would never pay for them. But some of those people will work in larger companies which would pay, and it is important for Hashicorp (Microsoft, Google, etc) that those people, as technical experts, would suggest buying the tools they know and love.
- ralph84 4y ago
  Red Hat is the exception that proves the rule. Canonical and Suse haven't been huge successes from a financial perspective. They've survived mostly by investors hoping they'd turn into the next Red Hat but they haven't. Certainly Amazon, Microsoft, and Google have generated much more revenue selling cloud services based on Linux than even Red Hat ever did selling Linux support.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  Don't forget Gitlab.
- jillesvangurp 4y ago
  People don't buy linux licenses but support licenses. If you want to use Red Hat, you can get the free version. Which is exactly what smaller companies do. Big companies tend to want to pay for ass coverage. IBM, and Oracle are in that business. IBM owns Red Hat, Oracle maintains a derivative for their customers. The primary thing they sell is consulting, support, training, cerfification, etc. Hashicorp is similar except much smaller. You don't buy their software but their support.
raffraffraff 4y ago
Hashicorp isn't just a small fish in the pond, it's a bunch of smaller fish in different ponds. I use Terraform to deploy EKS and a bunch of other AWS stuff. I have used Vault as part of a secret management strategy. I've only used Nomad as a toy. I ditched Vagrant after docker came along. Hashicorp isn't one cohesive product, it's a bunch of parts that can work together. "But you may need an adult to help you with the scissors and glue".
austinjp 4y ago
> If they succeed in their mission, the result is OSS software that is so simple to use that nobody needs their consulting services. If that comes to pass I think that's okay, even admirable. Not every company needs to keep growing and growing, trying to take over the world. Not every company needs to continue in perpetuity.
- jillesvangurp 4y ago
  > If that comes to pass I think that's okay, even admirable. Just not very profitable. That's why devops is such a complex job.
lifeisstillgood 4y ago
I think you may be surprised. There are very very large companies that surprisingly have hashicorp products deep in their central core - Vault is an obvious one. At the heart of all huge companies are InfoSec and architects looking for a solution they can trust will scale - and what better than the OSS product they have hands on experience with. It might not be profitable in Microsoft terms, but then again we won't see musicians earning like the Rolling Stones anymore. Open Source chnaged the software publishing game just like internet chnaged music, But there is enough profit out there.
dilyevsky 4y ago
I worked for a shop that payed them for enterprise licenses, it was $$$ and imo the experience had been subpar. That was number of years ago so hopefully support has seen some improvement with all that extra IPO capital... That managed to capture a huge mindshare across all levels of infrastructure devs so that ought to be worth something.
jeffwask 4y ago
We looked at paying for Terraform Cloud but their pricing was off the charts compared to all their competitors in the TACO space and they were being out innovated by 3x. We signed Spacelift instead for 10% of what they were asking

sverhagen 4y ago

Honest question/suggestion: don't you think many big companies are more than happy to pay for the consulting to give them a feeling of comfort and safety, someone to turn to if there's an outage in the middle of the night? Not that I'd need much Hashicorp folks on my "bridge call" when my Websphere cluster runs out of memory, but since IBM and Microsoft are on speed dial (in their million(s) dollar support contracts), we may want the same for Hashicorp. This "we" is not "me", but I did work for this sort of company in the past. Open source made them uncomfortable, consulting may help with that. And sure, it lasts only as long as it does.

nine_k 4y ago

Anybody can go and install Linux on almost anything that computes. How do Red Hat, Canonical, Suse even exist? I'd say two parts are key: support (you can see it as a kind of technology insurance) and customized, tailor-made solutions in more demanding cases. Those who use Hashicorp products for free mostly would never pay for them. But some of those people will work in larger companies which would pay, and it is important for Hashicorp (Microsoft, Google, etc) that those people, as technical experts, would suggest buying the tools they know and love.

ralph84 4y ago
Red Hat is the exception that proves the rule. Canonical and Suse haven't been huge successes from a financial perspective. They've survived mostly by investors hoping they'd turn into the next Red Hat but they haven't. Certainly Amazon, Microsoft, and Google have generated much more revenue selling cloud services based on Linux than even Red Hat ever did selling Linux support.
systemvoltage 4y ago
Don't forget Gitlab.
jillesvangurp 4y ago
People don't buy linux licenses but support licenses. If you want to use Red Hat, you can get the free version. Which is exactly what smaller companies do. Big companies tend to want to pay for ass coverage. IBM, and Oracle are in that business. IBM owns Red Hat, Oracle maintains a derivative for their customers. The primary thing they sell is consulting, support, training, cerfification, etc. Hashicorp is similar except much smaller. You don't buy their software but their support.

raffraffraff 4y ago

Hashicorp isn't just a small fish in the pond, it's a bunch of smaller fish in different ponds. I use Terraform to deploy EKS and a bunch of other AWS stuff. I have used Vault as part of a secret management strategy. I've only used Nomad as a toy. I ditched Vagrant after docker came along. Hashicorp isn't one cohesive product, it's a bunch of parts that can work together. "But you may need an adult to help you with the scissors and glue".

austinjp 4y ago

> If they succeed in their mission, the result is OSS software that is so simple to use that nobody needs their consulting services. If that comes to pass I think that's okay, even admirable. Not every company needs to keep growing and growing, trying to take over the world. Not every company needs to continue in perpetuity.

jillesvangurp 4y ago
> If that comes to pass I think that's okay, even admirable. Just not very profitable. That's why devops is such a complex job.

lifeisstillgood 4y ago

I think you may be surprised. There are very very large companies that surprisingly have hashicorp products deep in their central core - Vault is an obvious one. At the heart of all huge companies are InfoSec and architects looking for a solution they can trust will scale - and what better than the OSS product they have hands on experience with. It might not be profitable in Microsoft terms, but then again we won't see musicians earning like the Rolling Stones anymore. Open Source chnaged the software publishing game just like internet chnaged music, But there is enough profit out there.

dilyevsky 4y ago

I worked for a shop that payed them for enterprise licenses, it was $$$ and imo the experience had been subpar. That was number of years ago so hopefully support has seen some improvement with all that extra IPO capital... That managed to capture a huge mindshare across all levels of infrastructure devs so that ought to be worth something.

jeffwask 4y ago

We looked at paying for Terraform Cloud but their pricing was off the charts compared to all their competitors in the TACO space and they were being out innovated by 3x. We signed Spacelift instead for 10% of what they were asking