14 ms·

YKK zippers: Why so many designers use them (2012)

140 points by georgecmu 4y ago

hilbert42 4y ago
"...you’d think that something so simple might have been perfected—becoming a 100 percent reliable commodity. But that hasn’t happened. There are still tons of faulty zippers out there. Teeth that break. Pulls that pop. Herky-jerky sliding and irreparable lockups." Oh so true. I've had so many run-ins and fights with zippers over the years that I've developed an intense dislike for them. I come to the conclusion that they're a 100-year-old invention still looking for a suitable use. They're forever jamming or the teeth fail to engage, or they catch on clothing which then cannot be extracted. ...And I shouldn't have to remind the average male of their ability to draw blood. When they break they're impossible to repair. To repair them means changing them completely for a new one and for that one needs a 'degree' in sewing and the patience of a saint. Then there's the difficulty of finding a suitable replacement that fits. Buttons may be less convenient but at least any fool can replace them.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  > Buttons may be less convenient but at least any fool can replace them. Buttons are choking hazards to infants and toddlers. Zippers are far better for clothing for them when needed.
  - trhway 4y ago
    Velcro. We have a small dog which needs clothes, and naturally zippers would be no-go and buttons wouldn't work well for many reasons. Velcro though is like magic.
    - crysin 4y ago
      The Velcro company kindly asks that you refrain from using Velcro as a noun or verb. Instead use the generic term hook & loop. https://www.velcro.com/dont-say-velcro/ https://www.velcro.com/dont-say-velcro/ This in jest but I like sharing this as it's really interesting the efforts Velcro goes to, to protect their trademark.
      - Cockbrand 4y ago
        Interesting, I’ve only seen rules like these for the proper verbal usage of Adobe® Photoshop®: https://www.adobe.com/legal/permissions/trademarks.html https://www.adobe.com/legal/permissions/trademarks.html
        dsr_ 4y ago
        You could probably google a dozen more instances, but it's the sort of thing that bored journalists do every few years: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/09/kleenex-is-a-registered-trademark-and-other-appeals-to-journalists/380733/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/09/kleenex...
      - Stratoscope 4y ago
        That is a very cute page. I like their attitude. And the video at the top of the page is absolutely wonderful. It's the funniest thing I've seen in a long time. Watch it with good headphones or speakers and the sound up. Direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRi8LptvFZY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRi8LptvFZY
      - sph 4y ago
        > When you use “velcro” as a noun or a verb (e.g., velcro shoes), you diminish the importance of our brand and our lawyers lose their insert fastening sound. Haha, so sad to hear. I wish I could print this and velcro it to my fridge.
      - OJFord 4y ago
        > When you use “velcro” as a noun or a verb (e.g., velcro shoes), you diminish the importance of our brand and our lawyers lose their insert fastening sound. So please, do not say “velcro shoes” (or “velcro wallet” or “velcro gloves”) – we repeat “velcro” is not a noun or a verb. Weird, the word they're looking for is 'adjective'. As the name of the company it absolutely is a (proper) noun.
        mathieuh 4y ago
        Is it an adjective? It's the same kind of thing as "golf ball", which to me is a compound noun.
    - mathieuh 4y ago
      Why are zippers a no-go? I have a small dog I put a raincoat on when it's raining and it zips up.
      - trhway 4y ago
        fur may stuck into it. And if zipper gets stuck for whatever reason the dog may not like sitting for the prolonged time while you're trying to unstuck it. Of course it all depends on specific circumstances, and it is definitely great that it works for your dog. A garment with zipper also requires much better fitting - which giving dog shapes variations may be a tall order - than say with Velcro where usually there is some latitude, and with Velcro it is much easier to make adjustment by moving it a bit if needed while making adjustment with zipper looks daunting.
      - ben_w 4y ago
        Depending on the rest of the article design, that may be fine or it may risk fur getting caught in the zip. I have occasional trouble with my own body hair in zip. This would be the "bad" design: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/613U7zu5OoL._AC_SL1266_.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/613U7zu5OoL... I don't know the terms of art so I can't google for a picture of the "good" design, but it would have a wide strip of fabric behind the zip that would ensure no fur gets near the zip mechanism.
    - nemo44x 4y ago
      Can certainly work in certain situations but not all with a young person. They can generally learn to rip open Velcro and now you’re dealing with that. Zippers require a certain level of coordination and dexterity they won’t develop for awhile.
- vasco 4y ago
  Since we're trading anecdata I haven't had a single zipper problem in 10 years+
  - seabrookmx 4y ago
    Do you own a backpack? I don't often have zipper problems but it's always on a backpack, probably due to the abuse they take.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      I don't have any trouble at all with the zippers on my 3 backpacks, but they're all Ospreys so that might make a difference. They all get a lot of abuse.
    - hadlock 4y ago
      I've been buying REI backpacks, they tend to grossly oversize the zippers, particularly on their travel backpacks. I have not had a zipper failure in, well since 2008 which was the last time I bought a backpack, because they (50 liter "large" travel backpack, and 18 liter "flash 18" backpack) haven't failed yet. I did have a clip failure on a timbuk2 messenger bag, but they gave me a replacement for free at one of their retail locations.
    - alpaca128 4y ago
      The only backpack that gave me zipper problems was so cheap it fell apart within one minute of use. The one I got afterwards was on the expensive side but it's now ~16 years old and has survived daily use pretty well, the zippers always worked perfectly despite me having put them through quite some strain. When a zipper fails for me it's 100% a jacket. Cheap, expensive, doesn't matter, they all get stuck now and then.
      - qu4z-2 4y ago
        I've had no issues on either backpacks or jackets. Shoes, on the other hand... (especially boots. Don't get me started)
      - 4y ago
- rapsey 4y ago
  Are you buying the cheapest clothes possible? This sounds very much like a problem that you cause yourself.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    I have a pair of kahkis from Banana Republic that have a touchy zipper. If I unzip too far, it is difficult to get the zipper back up. This has caused me significant consternation in public bathrooms! They probably cost around $60, with an MSRP 30% higher.
    - ryanklee 4y ago
      Banana republic does not sell quality clothing. Cheap construction, priced for branding.
      - gnicholas 4y ago
        This comment was in reply to a question about buying the cheapest possible clothes. My point was that zipper issues happen with clothes that aren’t cheap also. I realize BR is not high-end, but they are above Gap and Old Navy in their corporate family.
        ryanklee 4y ago
        Yes, and I meant to convey that the quality of the clothing material and construction at banana republic is no better than the gap. It's just branding.
        gnicholas 4y ago
        That's funny, I've found that Gap uses lower-quality materials, especially compared to the nicer BR stuff. The BR non-iron dress shirts, for example, truly don't need any ironing. Gap has "non-iron" clothing as well, but it's of much lower quality and wrinkles much more easily.
- maxbond 4y ago
  Rubbing some paraffin on the teeth can help. That being said, if buttons work better for you, more power to you. People simply have different lifestyles and needs, and it's great to have options. I've not had nearly as much trouble as you describe (I've only zipped my weener twice in my entire life, and I don't think I drew blood), but there are other things in life that people swear by that just don't work well for me.
  - mellavora 4y ago
    or beeswax. This is a classic trick for drysuits, where the zipper needs to stay waterproof.
  - hilbert42 4y ago
    OK, fine. But read my reply to vasco. By the time I'd have found the paraffin or wax I'd have exploded with impatience. Besides, usually that's only a temporary solution as the lubricant comes off in the wash, thus the cycle repeats. Moreover, I've noticed repeatedly that once a zipper starts to give trouble it's inevitability on a downward slope to compete failure. Similarly so zippers with metal teeth and diecast-type zip housings suffer from clothes washing, as they are prone to progressive failure from being attacked[1] by washing powders and inorganic stain removers. (I've only zipped my weener twice in my entire life, and I don't think I drew blood) Granted, this is less of a problem nowadays as many zippers now use rounded interlocking nylon wire that's less likely to 'bite'. However, that once wasn't so especially in the days when jeans were more work clothes than a fashion statement. Their zippers were made strong and to last and had large brass interlocking teeth that could do real damage, and impatient guys like me were often 'bitten' to the extent blood would flow (I recall from experience). Presumably, the reason for the change arose from victims' complaints. __ [1] The sodium percarbonate in these cleaners attacks the metal, similarly so with metal the rivets and buttons in jeans (as in 501s, etc.), especially on the unpassivated underside that clamps to the material. The oxides that then build up rot the nearby fabric and the button can then detatch.
- tomatocracy 4y ago
  For me the annoying failure mode is when the metal ring on the puller which attaches to the slider eventually wears through and breaks (this seems to happen on bags and luggage a lot for me). The important parts of the zipper are all still working, it's infuriating that there isn't an easier way to replace the puller easily like for like (at least that I'm aware of).
  - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
    Zip tie. Even a paper clip. If you have a 3D printer you can even make nice little pulls for the zip ties to attach to.
    - tomatocracy 4y ago
      Yes, I've usually just used a short piece of string. But I'd still like to be able to replace them with a proper puller.
      - kube-system 4y ago
        “Zipper pull” returns a good variety of results in Amazon.
    - jdfellow 4y ago
      Split rings (key rings) work well in my experience.
    - hilbert42 4y ago
      Yes, paperclips are wonderful for this purpose, especially so when used on one's fly zipper as they've a low profile and can't be seen. The best paperclips for this purpose are the V-shaped type that are narrower at the top. They've saved me from having to replace a zipper on a number of occasions. If you read my comment about washing powders attacking the crappy alloy material that's so often used in those pull tabs and causing them to fail then a paperclip is the ideal solution.
  - tokamak-teapot 4y ago
- ben_w 4y ago
  Regarding button, while it's certainly easier to replace them than to replace a zipper (I can see where to put the needle and don't have to learn how to use the zipper foot for my sewing machine), I find the reattached buttons tend to come off again easily. Given I'm enough of a nerd to be on this site, I decided to try a pair of (small, rare earth) magnets next. While they were even easier to attach than buttons, the force between them was weaker than I had hoped, even allowing that I already knew it would only be a normal force and have minimal shear strength.
  - hilbert42 4y ago
    I tried that magnet trick on a pair of my overalls after some of the press-locking fasteners broke but it too was an abject failure. Every time I bent over or made sudden movements the closure popped open. As I couldn't immediately get replacement press-locking fasteners, I resorted to sewing on buttons at points where the fasteners had failed but that wasn't the most brilliant of ideas. When it came to removing my overalls I could no longer just rip them open from top to bottom in one go - as is my usual wont.
- tomjen3 4y ago
  And now you know why people check that the product uses YKK zippers.
hancholo 4y ago
I prefer the button like on levis, but maybe that's just me.
- m463 4y ago
  I recently bought a wetsuit and it had GIANT zippers. I love levi's button fly jeans but giant zippers like that would be kind of cool too.
  - mellavora 4y ago
    wetsuit zipper may have to pull some pretty stretchy rubber closed (assuming a less than ideal fit), may also be subject to stress from a 25-30kg harness, and also deal with sand/mud/grit in the teeth. There are strong functional drivers for large zippers on wetsuits. It isn't just fashion.
ar_turnbull 4y ago
Great article and I’ve worked on a project related to the fashion industry that clued me into YKK’s zipper dominance. But they got the IT quote at the end of the article wrong -_- “You’ll never get fired for hiring Microsoft” should be IBM ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- maxbond 4y ago
  Microsoft is probably a more relevant contemporary example for an audience not steeped in our mythology, I'd certainly raise an eyebrow at someone hiring IBM in 2022. I'd wager many people aren't familiar with IBM.
  - hackernewds 4y ago
    Oh how the giants have fallen
- asguy 4y ago
  Maybe if you’re a boomer. We’ve gone through iterations: - for buying IBM - for buying Microsoft - for buying Oracle - for buying Cisco - for buying AWS … what’s next?
  - rxhernandez 4y ago
    I was born in the 90s, been programming since I was 12 (nearly 20 years), and I've only ever heard IBM.
    - Semaphor 4y ago
      Do you man the saying? Then yes, I agree. But using the saying in a way that people unfamiliar with it will (probably) understand it, I agree with OP.
  - pabs3 4y ago
    > … what’s next? Open source?
nindalf 4y ago
> You don’t buy your jeans and jackets by looking for their letters on that pull. Likewise, you almost certainly wouldn’t nix a garment purchase because the zipper isn’t YKK. This is partially true. YKK has tremendous brand loyalty among people buying expensive backpacks. If you’re spending $100 or more, it gives you a lot of peace of mind to know that the zipper won’t fail. I ended up buying one last month. One of the reasons was that it promised YKK AquaGuard zippers for the laptop compartment.
- pastrami_panda 4y ago
  Do note that a decent waterproof rain flap is probably more important if you need actual waterproofing for persistent rain. Since AquaGuard isn't waterproof, it's water resistant, just like all zippers I've seen in the wild.
  - nindalf 4y ago
    You’re right. This isn’t going to last hours in a monsoon. But then again, neither would I. The water resistance means I can walk towards shelter instead of sprinting towards it.
  - rckoepke 4y ago
    Check out TIZIP SuperSeal zipper -- it was used on some "dry suits" I wear for offshore sailboat racing in cold-water environments and is truly water-proof. It's advertised to be water-proof up to 700 millibar of pressure differential, which is equivalent to 23 feet of water depth. This zipper does require maintenance in the form of regular lubrication using, for example, a food-grade silicone grease/lubricant like the ones used for slushie/daiquiri machines. I've looked into getting it worked into bags from Montrose Rope and Sail in Scotland when I worked in offshore industrial environments, but they don't have the equipment to do the "vinyl welding" necessary so you'd have to buy the bag without zippers and then find someone else who could do that welding.
- ABeeSea 4y ago
  There is nothing that will make you appreciate the quality of a zipper more than having the zipper on your luggage break while in the airport. And that is the day that I learned the Miami airport has a service that will basically use industrial strength cling wrap to seal your luggage.
incanus77 4y ago
Ah yes, the original Y2K.
pleb_nz 4y ago
And they had no issues when the new millennium rolled around
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  We will see in 2038
lambdaloop 4y ago
I read this article 10 years ago and have since revered these little YKK zippers and paid particular attention to how well they work in practice. They're... okay. At the end of the day, they're still zippers. They do jam less than others, but they have broken occasionally and I've learned not to 100% rely on them either.
pastrami_panda 4y ago
On this note I do want to get into Anoraks because from what I understand they pack up much easier and the zippers basically don't wear out. But I've never found a comfortable way to take them on and off them so always end up returning them. Any anorak wearers wanna share some oppinions on this?
- gherkinnn 4y ago
  Former anorak owner. Taking them on and off is uncomfortable so I went back to full length zippers.
- stinos 4y ago
  In total I used anoraks for about 2 decades by now and probably won't anymore, for exactly the reason you mention: none of them were really convenient to get on and off, and if they were sort of convenient then it was because they were somewhat too big. In the end I just liked the single frontpocket (warm for your hands) and look. And most of what seems like advantages are actually that: in comparison with a decent jacket with zipper it's not more windproof, nor more waterproof (zippers+flaps have been figured out for a long time), nor did I find them easier to pack. Even though the latter should be true in theory I cannot say it ever bothered me, and I have the impression that what makes a jacket hard to pack is wrong technique and mainly how thick the fabric is, zippers shouldn't play any roll (pun intended - the roll up just fine). Anoraks could be lighter though.
spoonjim 4y ago
> You don’t buy your jeans and jackets by looking for their letters on that pull. Likewise, you almost certainly wouldn’t nix a garment purchase because the zipper isn’t YKK. LOL LOL LOL. The YKK zipper is pretty much the first thing I look for if I'm going to spend more than $average on any product. Nixed my son's favorite backpack choices because no YKK zipper. It is one of the few brands I trust in apparel.
- steve_adams_86 4y ago
  But what if the backpacks had comparable or better zippers than YKK? They exist.
Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
YKK is that ubiquitous, that even when I was a child living in USSR, almost every zipper that I ever saw had these mysterious letters on them. Even on domestic products.
bregma 4y ago
It's because the rock band Rush did a song about them [0]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdpMpfp-J_I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdpMpfp-J_I
- pge 4y ago
  That’s YYZ not YKK and is a reference to the airport code for Toronto airport.
- dav_Oz 4y ago
  Actually if you look closely at the repeated notes at the beginning of the song it can be read as morse code (without spaces) for YYZ [0]. The story goes while on the Toronto Airport Neil Peart overheard the airport identifier in morse code and so the intro was born. But I'm not sure where he would have heard that other than over radio broadcast reserved for pilots and ATCs. Instead I think he must have been aware of the obscure history of canadian airport identifiers when wondering about why they have no resemblance (like mostly in the rest of the world) with the letters of the respective cities/geographic area. Canadian airport codes have their roots in the old telegraph stations operated by the railways. They were assigned two-letter identifiers so as to be easily tapped in Morse code. As radio communications evolved, these stations added beacons and specialized in weather reporting. In the 1930’s, a third letter was added to the classification [...] [1][2] [0]https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2022/08/14/yyz/ https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2022/08/14/yyz/ [1]https://rwy23.com/en-de/pages/the-hidden-language-of-airport-codes https://rwy23.com/en-de/pages/the-hidden-language-of-airport... [2]https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/04/why-torontos-airport-code-yyz/ https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/04/why-torontos-airport-cod...
- duffyjp 4y ago
  Outkast was a phenomenon while I was in college. "YKK on your zipper" was a lyric in "So Fresh, So Clean." That was the first time I'd heard of them and I recall looking at all my stuff to see what used YKK. I had to make sure I was dope or whatever.
bilekas 4y ago
On a side note that blew me away about YKK zips is that they actually have locks built into them. https://www.ykk.com/english/ykk/tech/03.html https://www.ykk.com/english/ykk/tech/03.html All my years I never knew this. Great engineering.
- mxuribe 4y ago
  Wow, I never knew this! Thanks for sharing!
- tyingq 4y ago
  Apparently lots of different types of locks too: https://www.ykkfastening.com/products/zipper/slider/locking_function/ https://www.ykkfastening.com/products/zipper/slider/locking_...
- culopatin 4y ago
  This is not only ykk though, many others have copied this system. Have you ever had your zipper all the way down with the tab lodged in the end of the V and you can’t bring them up until you lift the tab from that hole? The lock is why
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guerrilla 4y ago
On a side note, I recently switched to jeans with buttons and I'm not really sure why people use zippers for that anymore... Seems like an unnecessary point of failure that nobody can even see...
- manuelabeledo 4y ago
  You never had a button fall or break?
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    Copper buttons in jeans? No, not yet and very rarely do any buttons in general break compared to zippers which break pretty much all the time.
    - manuelabeledo 4y ago
      > ... compared to zippers which break pretty much all the time. I haven't had any zippers broke in my jeans in like 40 years. Now I'm not sure if I'm the rare exception here.
      - guerrilla 4y ago
        Hmm, is that a specific brand? I wonder if you might spend more than I do. I'm talking about the cheapest I can find that fit in both cases, so I'm comparing those. I don't buy Levi's or anything like that.
        inkcapmushroom 4y ago
        My anecdata from buying cheap thrift store jeans/Target jeans is I've never had a zipper break on them. Have had the pull break off on my luggage though, for a few bags.
phkahler 4y ago
>> The young Yoshida was a tinkerer who designed his own customized zipper machines when he wasn’t satisfied with existing production methods. One by one, Yoshida brought basically every stage of the zipper making process in house This where a lot of things are today. You don't just need a good design, you need a good production method that produces that design. With manufacturing coming back to the US this seems like a huge opportunity.
jerrysievert 4y ago
I received a product I had paid $400 for, that did not have a YKK zipper: the zipper was already compromised by the time I received it. it caused me to look more closely at the materials and workmanship: * extremely cheap materials * messy workmanship had the zipper been of decent quality, I probably wouldn't have looked as closely as I did and would be cursing how quickly it all fell apart. in hindsight, it saved me some effort, as I was able to return, but it also turned me off forever on the brand. a quality zipper matters, and if you don't have one, what else was skimped on?
- redundantly 4y ago
  > it also turned me off forever on the brand. Name and shame, please.
  - jerrysievert 4y ago
    I really don't care for the name and shame game, but I will note that it was a licensed Star Trek product.
xchip 4y ago
TL;DR YKK makes incredibly dependable zippers, ships them on time without fail, offers a wide range of colors, materials, and styles, and never gets badly undercut on price. The feeling in the apparel industry is that you can’t go wrong with YKK.
jonahss 4y ago
I heartily recommend stopping by their headquarters in Tokyo, they have a small museum open to the public! Their largest zipper has fist-sized teeth and is for zipping together fishing nets. Look for the YKK letters on a building near Akihabara.
VoodooJuJu 4y ago
I hate zippers and wish more clothes had buttons in place of them, especially the fly. A zipper fly's rigidity and metal teeth are at odds with the flowing elegance of clothing. When seated, the zipper fly props itself up, informing others that I'm happy to see them, even when I'm not. The zipper fly is a liar. Whereas the button fly does not lie. It acquiesces to my position in honest fashion, whether I'm seated or standing.
- falcolas 4y ago
  That's not my experience - denim is generally stiff enough that it will bulge regardless. And button flies have the bad habit of becoming unbuttoned throughout the day if the pants are old enough.
Reason077 4y ago
Growing up in the 1980s I remember becoming mildly obsessed with zippers (or "zips" as we called them) at one point. I remember going around the house and noticing that it was strange that almost all of them, no matter what type of clothing it was, how old it was, or what size of zip it was, said YKK on them. Now days I guess they're more of a premium brand, but back then they seemed to totally dominate the market at all levels. (just checked the zip on my Lululemon trousers, and yes, it's YKK!)
iamacyborg 4y ago
Lots of folks here saying they won’t buy items without ykk zips but a lot of brands will use custom pullers by ykk. So there’s no visible ykk branding at all and you might be missing out. Ykk’s excella range is very nice, particularly for higher end shoes and leather goods.
lowbloodsugar 4y ago
It seems like they are one of the many companies milking their brand and turning into wealth by reducing costs and quality. Both my two recent experiences with YKK were negative: two broken zippers.
- merry_flame 4y ago
  Couldn't they have been counterfeit YKK zippers? It's a big thing, unfortunately.
  - lowbloodsugar 4y ago
    On Prada? Bought from a reputable store? Unlikely.

140 points by georgecmu 4y ago

"...you’d think that something so simple might have been perfected—becoming a 100 percent reliable commodity. But that hasn’t happened. There are still tons of faulty zippers out there. Teeth that break. Pulls that pop. Herky-jerky sliding and irreparable lockups." Oh so true. I've had so many run-ins and fights with zippers over the years that I've developed an intense dislike for them. I come to the conclusion that they're a 100-year-old invention still looking for a suitable use. They're forever jamming or the teeth fail to engage, or they catch on clothing which then cannot be extracted. ...And I shouldn't have to remind the average male of their ability to draw blood. When they break they're impossible to repair. To repair them means changing them completely for a new one and for that one needs a 'degree' in sewing and the patience of a saint. Then there's the difficulty of finding a suitable replacement that fits. Buttons may be less convenient but at least any fool can replace them.

nemo44x 4y ago
> Buttons may be less convenient but at least any fool can replace them. Buttons are choking hazards to infants and toddlers. Zippers are far better for clothing for them when needed.
- trhway 4y ago
  Velcro. We have a small dog which needs clothes, and naturally zippers would be no-go and buttons wouldn't work well for many reasons. Velcro though is like magic.
  - crysin 4y ago
    The Velcro company kindly asks that you refrain from using Velcro as a noun or verb. Instead use the generic term hook & loop. https://www.velcro.com/dont-say-velcro/ https://www.velcro.com/dont-say-velcro/ This in jest but I like sharing this as it's really interesting the efforts Velcro goes to, to protect their trademark.
    - Cockbrand 4y ago
      Interesting, I’ve only seen rules like these for the proper verbal usage of Adobe® Photoshop®: https://www.adobe.com/legal/permissions/trademarks.html https://www.adobe.com/legal/permissions/trademarks.html
      - dsr_ 4y ago
        You could probably google a dozen more instances, but it's the sort of thing that bored journalists do every few years: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/09/kleenex-is-a-registered-trademark-and-other-appeals-to-journalists/380733/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/09/kleenex...
    - Stratoscope 4y ago
      That is a very cute page. I like their attitude. And the video at the top of the page is absolutely wonderful. It's the funniest thing I've seen in a long time. Watch it with good headphones or speakers and the sound up. Direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRi8LptvFZY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRi8LptvFZY
    - sph 4y ago
      > When you use “velcro” as a noun or a verb (e.g., velcro shoes), you diminish the importance of our brand and our lawyers lose their insert fastening sound. Haha, so sad to hear. I wish I could print this and velcro it to my fridge.
    - OJFord 4y ago
      > When you use “velcro” as a noun or a verb (e.g., velcro shoes), you diminish the importance of our brand and our lawyers lose their insert fastening sound. So please, do not say “velcro shoes” (or “velcro wallet” or “velcro gloves”) – we repeat “velcro” is not a noun or a verb. Weird, the word they're looking for is 'adjective'. As the name of the company it absolutely is a (proper) noun.
      - mathieuh 4y ago
        Is it an adjective? It's the same kind of thing as "golf ball", which to me is a compound noun.
  - mathieuh 4y ago
    Why are zippers a no-go? I have a small dog I put a raincoat on when it's raining and it zips up.
    - trhway 4y ago
      fur may stuck into it. And if zipper gets stuck for whatever reason the dog may not like sitting for the prolonged time while you're trying to unstuck it. Of course it all depends on specific circumstances, and it is definitely great that it works for your dog. A garment with zipper also requires much better fitting - which giving dog shapes variations may be a tall order - than say with Velcro where usually there is some latitude, and with Velcro it is much easier to make adjustment by moving it a bit if needed while making adjustment with zipper looks daunting.
    - ben_w 4y ago
      Depending on the rest of the article design, that may be fine or it may risk fur getting caught in the zip. I have occasional trouble with my own body hair in zip. This would be the "bad" design: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/613U7zu5OoL._AC_SL1266_.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/613U7zu5OoL... I don't know the terms of art so I can't google for a picture of the "good" design, but it would have a wide strip of fabric behind the zip that would ensure no fur gets near the zip mechanism.
  - nemo44x 4y ago
    Can certainly work in certain situations but not all with a young person. They can generally learn to rip open Velcro and now you’re dealing with that. Zippers require a certain level of coordination and dexterity they won’t develop for awhile.
vasco 4y ago
Since we're trading anecdata I haven't had a single zipper problem in 10 years+
- seabrookmx 4y ago
  Do you own a backpack? I don't often have zipper problems but it's always on a backpack, probably due to the abuse they take.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    I don't have any trouble at all with the zippers on my 3 backpacks, but they're all Ospreys so that might make a difference. They all get a lot of abuse.
  - hadlock 4y ago
    I've been buying REI backpacks, they tend to grossly oversize the zippers, particularly on their travel backpacks. I have not had a zipper failure in, well since 2008 which was the last time I bought a backpack, because they (50 liter "large" travel backpack, and 18 liter "flash 18" backpack) haven't failed yet. I did have a clip failure on a timbuk2 messenger bag, but they gave me a replacement for free at one of their retail locations.
  - alpaca128 4y ago
    The only backpack that gave me zipper problems was so cheap it fell apart within one minute of use. The one I got afterwards was on the expensive side but it's now ~16 years old and has survived daily use pretty well, the zippers always worked perfectly despite me having put them through quite some strain. When a zipper fails for me it's 100% a jacket. Cheap, expensive, doesn't matter, they all get stuck now and then.
    - qu4z-2 4y ago
      I've had no issues on either backpacks or jackets. Shoes, on the other hand... (especially boots. Don't get me started)
    - 4y ago
rapsey 4y ago
Are you buying the cheapest clothes possible? This sounds very much like a problem that you cause yourself.
- gnicholas 4y ago
  I have a pair of kahkis from Banana Republic that have a touchy zipper. If I unzip too far, it is difficult to get the zipper back up. This has caused me significant consternation in public bathrooms! They probably cost around $60, with an MSRP 30% higher.
  - ryanklee 4y ago
    Banana republic does not sell quality clothing. Cheap construction, priced for branding.
    - gnicholas 4y ago
      This comment was in reply to a question about buying the cheapest possible clothes. My point was that zipper issues happen with clothes that aren’t cheap also. I realize BR is not high-end, but they are above Gap and Old Navy in their corporate family.
      - ryanklee 4y ago
        Yes, and I meant to convey that the quality of the clothing material and construction at banana republic is no better than the gap. It's just branding.
        gnicholas 4y ago
        That's funny, I've found that Gap uses lower-quality materials, especially compared to the nicer BR stuff. The BR non-iron dress shirts, for example, truly don't need any ironing. Gap has "non-iron" clothing as well, but it's of much lower quality and wrinkles much more easily.
maxbond 4y ago
Rubbing some paraffin on the teeth can help. That being said, if buttons work better for you, more power to you. People simply have different lifestyles and needs, and it's great to have options. I've not had nearly as much trouble as you describe (I've only zipped my weener twice in my entire life, and I don't think I drew blood), but there are other things in life that people swear by that just don't work well for me.
- mellavora 4y ago
  or beeswax. This is a classic trick for drysuits, where the zipper needs to stay waterproof.
- hilbert42 4y ago
  OK, fine. But read my reply to vasco. By the time I'd have found the paraffin or wax I'd have exploded with impatience. Besides, usually that's only a temporary solution as the lubricant comes off in the wash, thus the cycle repeats. Moreover, I've noticed repeatedly that once a zipper starts to give trouble it's inevitability on a downward slope to compete failure. Similarly so zippers with metal teeth and diecast-type zip housings suffer from clothes washing, as they are prone to progressive failure from being attacked[1] by washing powders and inorganic stain removers. (I've only zipped my weener twice in my entire life, and I don't think I drew blood) Granted, this is less of a problem nowadays as many zippers now use rounded interlocking nylon wire that's less likely to 'bite'. However, that once wasn't so especially in the days when jeans were more work clothes than a fashion statement. Their zippers were made strong and to last and had large brass interlocking teeth that could do real damage, and impatient guys like me were often 'bitten' to the extent blood would flow (I recall from experience). Presumably, the reason for the change arose from victims' complaints. __ [1] The sodium percarbonate in these cleaners attacks the metal, similarly so with metal the rivets and buttons in jeans (as in 501s, etc.), especially on the unpassivated underside that clamps to the material. The oxides that then build up rot the nearby fabric and the button can then detatch.
tomatocracy 4y ago
For me the annoying failure mode is when the metal ring on the puller which attaches to the slider eventually wears through and breaks (this seems to happen on bags and luggage a lot for me). The important parts of the zipper are all still working, it's infuriating that there isn't an easier way to replace the puller easily like for like (at least that I'm aware of).
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  Zip tie. Even a paper clip. If you have a 3D printer you can even make nice little pulls for the zip ties to attach to.
  - tomatocracy 4y ago
    Yes, I've usually just used a short piece of string. But I'd still like to be able to replace them with a proper puller.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      “Zipper pull” returns a good variety of results in Amazon.
  - jdfellow 4y ago
    Split rings (key rings) work well in my experience.
  - hilbert42 4y ago
    Yes, paperclips are wonderful for this purpose, especially so when used on one's fly zipper as they've a low profile and can't be seen. The best paperclips for this purpose are the V-shaped type that are narrower at the top. They've saved me from having to replace a zipper on a number of occasions. If you read my comment about washing powders attacking the crappy alloy material that's so often used in those pull tabs and causing them to fail then a paperclip is the ideal solution.
- tokamak-teapot 4y ago
ben_w 4y ago
Regarding button, while it's certainly easier to replace them than to replace a zipper (I can see where to put the needle and don't have to learn how to use the zipper foot for my sewing machine), I find the reattached buttons tend to come off again easily. Given I'm enough of a nerd to be on this site, I decided to try a pair of (small, rare earth) magnets next. While they were even easier to attach than buttons, the force between them was weaker than I had hoped, even allowing that I already knew it would only be a normal force and have minimal shear strength.
- hilbert42 4y ago
  I tried that magnet trick on a pair of my overalls after some of the press-locking fasteners broke but it too was an abject failure. Every time I bent over or made sudden movements the closure popped open. As I couldn't immediately get replacement press-locking fasteners, I resorted to sewing on buttons at points where the fasteners had failed but that wasn't the most brilliant of ideas. When it came to removing my overalls I could no longer just rip them open from top to bottom in one go - as is my usual wont.
tomjen3 4y ago
And now you know why people check that the product uses YKK zippers.

hancholo 4y ago

I prefer the button like on levis, but maybe that's just me.

m463 4y ago
I recently bought a wetsuit and it had GIANT zippers. I love levi's button fly jeans but giant zippers like that would be kind of cool too.
- mellavora 4y ago
  wetsuit zipper may have to pull some pretty stretchy rubber closed (assuming a less than ideal fit), may also be subject to stress from a 25-30kg harness, and also deal with sand/mud/grit in the teeth. There are strong functional drivers for large zippers on wetsuits. It isn't just fashion.

ar_turnbull 4y ago

Great article and I’ve worked on a project related to the fashion industry that clued me into YKK’s zipper dominance. But they got the IT quote at the end of the article wrong -_- “You’ll never get fired for hiring Microsoft” should be IBM ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

maxbond 4y ago
Microsoft is probably a more relevant contemporary example for an audience not steeped in our mythology, I'd certainly raise an eyebrow at someone hiring IBM in 2022. I'd wager many people aren't familiar with IBM.
- hackernewds 4y ago
  Oh how the giants have fallen
asguy 4y ago
Maybe if you’re a boomer. We’ve gone through iterations: - for buying IBM - for buying Microsoft - for buying Oracle - for buying Cisco - for buying AWS … what’s next?
- rxhernandez 4y ago
  I was born in the 90s, been programming since I was 12 (nearly 20 years), and I've only ever heard IBM.
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    Do you man the saying? Then yes, I agree. But using the saying in a way that people unfamiliar with it will (probably) understand it, I agree with OP.
- pabs3 4y ago
  > … what’s next? Open source?

nindalf 4y ago

> You don’t buy your jeans and jackets by looking for their letters on that pull. Likewise, you almost certainly wouldn’t nix a garment purchase because the zipper isn’t YKK. This is partially true. YKK has tremendous brand loyalty among people buying expensive backpacks. If you’re spending $100 or more, it gives you a lot of peace of mind to know that the zipper won’t fail. I ended up buying one last month. One of the reasons was that it promised YKK AquaGuard zippers for the laptop compartment.

pastrami_panda 4y ago
Do note that a decent waterproof rain flap is probably more important if you need actual waterproofing for persistent rain. Since AquaGuard isn't waterproof, it's water resistant, just like all zippers I've seen in the wild.
- nindalf 4y ago
  You’re right. This isn’t going to last hours in a monsoon. But then again, neither would I. The water resistance means I can walk towards shelter instead of sprinting towards it.
- rckoepke 4y ago
  Check out TIZIP SuperSeal zipper -- it was used on some "dry suits" I wear for offshore sailboat racing in cold-water environments and is truly water-proof. It's advertised to be water-proof up to 700 millibar of pressure differential, which is equivalent to 23 feet of water depth. This zipper does require maintenance in the form of regular lubrication using, for example, a food-grade silicone grease/lubricant like the ones used for slushie/daiquiri machines. I've looked into getting it worked into bags from Montrose Rope and Sail in Scotland when I worked in offshore industrial environments, but they don't have the equipment to do the "vinyl welding" necessary so you'd have to buy the bag without zippers and then find someone else who could do that welding.
ABeeSea 4y ago
There is nothing that will make you appreciate the quality of a zipper more than having the zipper on your luggage break while in the airport. And that is the day that I learned the Miami airport has a service that will basically use industrial strength cling wrap to seal your luggage.

incanus77 4y ago

Ah yes, the original Y2K.

pleb_nz 4y ago

And they had no issues when the new millennium rolled around

fnordpiglet 4y ago
We will see in 2038

lambdaloop 4y ago

I read this article 10 years ago and have since revered these little YKK zippers and paid particular attention to how well they work in practice. They're... okay. At the end of the day, they're still zippers. They do jam less than others, but they have broken occasionally and I've learned not to 100% rely on them either.

pastrami_panda 4y ago

On this note I do want to get into Anoraks because from what I understand they pack up much easier and the zippers basically don't wear out. But I've never found a comfortable way to take them on and off them so always end up returning them. Any anorak wearers wanna share some oppinions on this?

gherkinnn 4y ago
Former anorak owner. Taking them on and off is uncomfortable so I went back to full length zippers.
stinos 4y ago
In total I used anoraks for about 2 decades by now and probably won't anymore, for exactly the reason you mention: none of them were really convenient to get on and off, and if they were sort of convenient then it was because they were somewhat too big. In the end I just liked the single frontpocket (warm for your hands) and look. And most of what seems like advantages are actually that: in comparison with a decent jacket with zipper it's not more windproof, nor more waterproof (zippers+flaps have been figured out for a long time), nor did I find them easier to pack. Even though the latter should be true in theory I cannot say it ever bothered me, and I have the impression that what makes a jacket hard to pack is wrong technique and mainly how thick the fabric is, zippers shouldn't play any roll (pun intended - the roll up just fine). Anoraks could be lighter though.

spoonjim 4y ago

> You don’t buy your jeans and jackets by looking for their letters on that pull. Likewise, you almost certainly wouldn’t nix a garment purchase because the zipper isn’t YKK. LOL LOL LOL. The YKK zipper is pretty much the first thing I look for if I'm going to spend more than $average on any product. Nixed my son's favorite backpack choices because no YKK zipper. It is one of the few brands I trust in apparel.

steve_adams_86 4y ago
But what if the backpacks had comparable or better zippers than YKK? They exist.

Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago

YKK is that ubiquitous, that even when I was a child living in USSR, almost every zipper that I ever saw had these mysterious letters on them. Even on domestic products.

bregma 4y ago

It's because the rock band Rush did a song about them [0]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdpMpfp-J_I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdpMpfp-J_I

pge 4y ago
That’s YYZ not YKK and is a reference to the airport code for Toronto airport.
dav_Oz 4y ago
Actually if you look closely at the repeated notes at the beginning of the song it can be read as morse code (without spaces) for YYZ [0]. The story goes while on the Toronto Airport Neil Peart overheard the airport identifier in morse code and so the intro was born. But I'm not sure where he would have heard that other than over radio broadcast reserved for pilots and ATCs. Instead I think he must have been aware of the obscure history of canadian airport identifiers when wondering about why they have no resemblance (like mostly in the rest of the world) with the letters of the respective cities/geographic area. Canadian airport codes have their roots in the old telegraph stations operated by the railways. They were assigned two-letter identifiers so as to be easily tapped in Morse code. As radio communications evolved, these stations added beacons and specialized in weather reporting. In the 1930’s, a third letter was added to the classification [...] [1][2] [0]https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2022/08/14/yyz/ https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2022/08/14/yyz/ [1]https://rwy23.com/en-de/pages/the-hidden-language-of-airport-codes https://rwy23.com/en-de/pages/the-hidden-language-of-airport... [2]https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/04/why-torontos-airport-code-yyz/ https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/04/why-torontos-airport-cod...
duffyjp 4y ago
Outkast was a phenomenon while I was in college. "YKK on your zipper" was a lyric in "So Fresh, So Clean." That was the first time I'd heard of them and I recall looking at all my stuff to see what used YKK. I had to make sure I was dope or whatever.

bilekas 4y ago

On a side note that blew me away about YKK zips is that they actually have locks built into them. https://www.ykk.com/english/ykk/tech/03.html https://www.ykk.com/english/ykk/tech/03.html All my years I never knew this. Great engineering.

mxuribe 4y ago
Wow, I never knew this! Thanks for sharing!
tyingq 4y ago
Apparently lots of different types of locks too: https://www.ykkfastening.com/products/zipper/slider/locking_function/ https://www.ykkfastening.com/products/zipper/slider/locking_...
culopatin 4y ago
This is not only ykk though, many others have copied this system. Have you ever had your zipper all the way down with the tab lodged in the end of the V and you can’t bring them up until you lift the tab from that hole? The lock is why

deleted 4y ago

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guerrilla 4y ago

On a side note, I recently switched to jeans with buttons and I'm not really sure why people use zippers for that anymore... Seems like an unnecessary point of failure that nobody can even see...

manuelabeledo 4y ago
You never had a button fall or break?
- guerrilla 4y ago
  Copper buttons in jeans? No, not yet and very rarely do any buttons in general break compared to zippers which break pretty much all the time.
  - manuelabeledo 4y ago
    > ... compared to zippers which break pretty much all the time. I haven't had any zippers broke in my jeans in like 40 years. Now I'm not sure if I'm the rare exception here.
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      Hmm, is that a specific brand? I wonder if you might spend more than I do. I'm talking about the cheapest I can find that fit in both cases, so I'm comparing those. I don't buy Levi's or anything like that.
      - inkcapmushroom 4y ago
        My anecdata from buying cheap thrift store jeans/Target jeans is I've never had a zipper break on them. Have had the pull break off on my luggage though, for a few bags.

phkahler 4y ago

>> The young Yoshida was a tinkerer who designed his own customized zipper machines when he wasn’t satisfied with existing production methods. One by one, Yoshida brought basically every stage of the zipper making process in house This where a lot of things are today. You don't just need a good design, you need a good production method that produces that design. With manufacturing coming back to the US this seems like a huge opportunity.

jerrysievert 4y ago

I received a product I had paid $400 for, that did not have a YKK zipper: the zipper was already compromised by the time I received it. it caused me to look more closely at the materials and workmanship: * extremely cheap materials * messy workmanship had the zipper been of decent quality, I probably wouldn't have looked as closely as I did and would be cursing how quickly it all fell apart. in hindsight, it saved me some effort, as I was able to return, but it also turned me off forever on the brand. a quality zipper matters, and if you don't have one, what else was skimped on?

redundantly 4y ago
> it also turned me off forever on the brand. Name and shame, please.
- jerrysievert 4y ago
  I really don't care for the name and shame game, but I will note that it was a licensed Star Trek product.

xchip 4y ago

TL;DR YKK makes incredibly dependable zippers, ships them on time without fail, offers a wide range of colors, materials, and styles, and never gets badly undercut on price. The feeling in the apparel industry is that you can’t go wrong with YKK.

jonahss 4y ago

I heartily recommend stopping by their headquarters in Tokyo, they have a small museum open to the public! Their largest zipper has fist-sized teeth and is for zipping together fishing nets. Look for the YKK letters on a building near Akihabara.

VoodooJuJu 4y ago

I hate zippers and wish more clothes had buttons in place of them, especially the fly. A zipper fly's rigidity and metal teeth are at odds with the flowing elegance of clothing. When seated, the zipper fly props itself up, informing others that I'm happy to see them, even when I'm not. The zipper fly is a liar. Whereas the button fly does not lie. It acquiesces to my position in honest fashion, whether I'm seated or standing.

falcolas 4y ago
That's not my experience - denim is generally stiff enough that it will bulge regardless. And button flies have the bad habit of becoming unbuttoned throughout the day if the pants are old enough.

Reason077 4y ago

Growing up in the 1980s I remember becoming mildly obsessed with zippers (or "zips" as we called them) at one point. I remember going around the house and noticing that it was strange that almost all of them, no matter what type of clothing it was, how old it was, or what size of zip it was, said YKK on them. Now days I guess they're more of a premium brand, but back then they seemed to totally dominate the market at all levels. (just checked the zip on my Lululemon trousers, and yes, it's YKK!)

iamacyborg 4y ago

Lots of folks here saying they won’t buy items without ykk zips but a lot of brands will use custom pullers by ykk. So there’s no visible ykk branding at all and you might be missing out. Ykk’s excella range is very nice, particularly for higher end shoes and leather goods.

lowbloodsugar 4y ago

It seems like they are one of the many companies milking their brand and turning into wealth by reducing costs and quality. Both my two recent experiences with YKK were negative: two broken zippers.

merry_flame 4y ago
Couldn't they have been counterfeit YKK zippers? It's a big thing, unfortunately.
- lowbloodsugar 4y ago
  On Prada? Bought from a reputable store? Unlikely.